CVR (T) or (W) Which was the Best and Why?

**commander** · 20-01-2006, 12:01

Originally Posted by aghart

I know this thread is about CVR!! but clearly sometimes the army goes in reverse. Wouldn't we have been a whole lot better off if we had just kept Ferret, Saladin & Saracen and kept CVR/T & W on the drawing board.

In my opinion Fox was crap, CVR/T was not not much better, and Ferret, Saladin & Saracen were better than their replacements.

Very bold and broad statement there aghart, would you care to say why Scorp.Scimitar.Sabre are / were crap? Do you not think that one reason was the lack off or the rising price of spares to keep the 6 wheelers going a factor, or is this just a personal thing

**aghart** · 20-01-2006, 21:43

Originally Posted by commander

Originally Posted by aghart

I know this thread is about CVR!! but clearly sometimes the army goes in reverse. Wouldn't we have been a whole lot better off if we had just kept Ferret, Saladin & Saracen and kept CVR/T & W on the drawing board.

In my opinion Fox was crap, CVR/T was not not much better, and Ferret, Saladin & Saracen were better than their replacements.

Very bold and broad statement there aghart, would you care to say why Scorp.Scimitar.Sabre are / were crap? Do you not think that one reason was the lack off or the rising price of spares to keep the 6 wheelers going a factor, or is this just a personal thing

CVR/T was quite new when 1 RTR was equipped with it (Nov 1974 Tidworth) and we had just finished 18 months in Omagh on Ferret, Saladin & Saracen. Mecahinical reliability is my main point, Ferret just never broke down, Saladin just went on and on and Saracen only became unreliable when it was uparmoured and the engine struggled to cope with the extra armour.

Fuel bag collapses were a daily event for Scorpion in the early years, and before the produced an electronic ignition breakdown due to plugs and points was also very common. When was the last time that the UK produced a really reliable tracked vehicle?. The decision to go "tracked" for Armoured Recce was in my opinion a mistake, it is though a personal thing!! I'm sure many of you will disagree and we are all entitled to our opinions but I did serve on all these vehicles and I feel that CVR/T was not an improvement.

Don't get me wrong, I LUVVED commanding Scorpion and I acknowledge that I have not sampled a diesel powered CVR/T and most of my experience was in early models.

**spank_the_monkey_to_death** · 20-01-2006, 22:15

Talking of which, is there any plans for a replacement recce wagon? If so what, wheeled or tracked?

**aghart** · 20-01-2006, 23:34

Scimitar is due to remain in service til 2021 which means CVR/T will have a service life of 50 years.

Scimitar is being uparmoured to protect against HMG's and is being fitted with horizontal "prison bars" on the outside to deal with RPG's (bit like the rocket wire of the Omagh era.). Mine protection is also being increased. New sights are also being fitted.

FRES. "Future Rapid Effect System" family of armoured vehicles is being developed more on that when info is available.

Panther. Sgt Majors rejoice!!! Chrismas has come early for you!!. The Ferret replacement has finally arrived. Panther a 4x4 armoured vehicle (more like an armoured Land Rover than an Armoured Car) is coming into service and the SSM's will each be having one, heated, rain proof, comfy and warm, & with adequate stowage space.

**Gassing_Badgers** · 21-01-2006, 11:14

Originally Posted by aghart

Panther. Sgt Majors rejoice!!! Chrismas has come early for you!!. The Ferret replacement has finally arrived. Panther a 4x4 armoured vehicle (more like an armoured Land Rover than an Armoured Car) is coming into service and the SSM's will each be having one, heated, rain proof, comfy and warm, & with adequate stowage space.

You are kidding, right?

With only a single Bowman setup, theres barely enough room for a Ginsters pasty!

Thats why the vehicle has to pull a trailer to carry its full load of kit - an interesting act of war on an armoured vehicle:

"Contact front, pop smoke! Driver Reverse!" CRUNCH THONK!

**commander** · 21-01-2006, 17:22

Originally Posted by aghart

Originally Posted by commander

Originally Posted by aghart

I know this thread is about CVR!! but clearly sometimes the army goes in reverse. Wouldn't we have been a whole lot better off if we had just kept Ferret, Saladin & Saracen and kept CVR/T & W on the drawing board.

In my opinion Fox was crap, CVR/T was not not much better, and Ferret, Saladin & Saracen were better than their replacements.

Very bold and broad statement there aghart, would you care to say why Scorp.Scimitar.Sabre are / were crap? Do you not think that one reason was the lack off or the rising price of spares to keep the 6 wheelers going a factor, or is this just a personal thing

CVR/T was quite new when 1 RTR was equipped with it (Nov 1974 Tidworth) and we had just finished 18 months in Omagh on Ferret, Saladin & Saracen. Mecahinical reliability is my main point, Ferret just never broke down, Saladin just went on and on and Saracen only became unreliable when it was uparmoured and the engine struggled to cope with the extra armour.

Fuel bag collapses were a daily event for Scorpion in the early years, and before the produced an electronic ignition breakdown due to plugs and points was also very common. When was the last time that the UK produced a really reliable tracked vehicle?. The decision to go "tracked" for Armoured Recce was in my opinion a mistake, it is though a personal thing!! I'm sure many of you will disagree and we are all entitled to our opinions but I did serve on all these vehicles and I feel that CVR/T was not an improvement.

Don't get me wrong, I LUVVED commanding Scorpion and I acknowledge that I have not sampled a diesel powered CVR/T and most of my experience was in early models.

Thanks Aghart for the reply, diesel powerd quite surprised me first tiem I drove one far better than I thought.

**Ash_Plant** · 23-01-2006, 18:33

As CVR(W) went out of service some time ago, is it not time to drop the T from CVR(T)? And Tiny, I am glad you were paying attention to my talk!!!

**Blind_Pew** · 02-02-2006, 18:43

Ash_plant.
Sorry if the thread is old for you, but some of us spent quite some time working on CVR (T&W).
I don't think they will drop the (T)from CVR as they may well bring back the (W) in another format!
What do you think?

**Ash_Plant** · 07-02-2006, 16:04

I have plenty of T experience in most variants but have had only one scary trip in W back in 1987. And I don't think we will have a wheeled armoured recce veh for some time yet.

**reccyman** · 06-06-2006, 06:45

Loved the scorpion coz I felt like it had some 'wallop' with the 75. Scimitar much easier to hit the targets but felt like I'd need to put two clips of APDS into a hard target to tickle it. Fox... crap on wheels. We had one squadron on Fox and yes it was faster on the road and quieter to sneak up on the baddies. But you woul'nt want to be legging it at full throttle across tghe 'huloo' on a dark night without good life insurance. We had many injuries on these top heavy heaps of shite... other than that they were ok.The scorp and scim had jag engines when I was in so they had some acceleration. Not sure what the perkins diesel is like, though its gotta be more reliable?