ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by MiracleBill

PAYD was floored from the outset. Now tight pads take advantage of cheap food (for cheap read poor quality) and singlies would rather spend their cash on pot noodles.
I have eaten in lots of PAYD establishments and the 'chefs' are experts at making rubbish food look appetising with a bit parsley and a chopped up tomato.
If you want fond memories of how it used to be, go to the JRM in Thiepval Bks (it hadn't gone to the dark side 6 months ago).
Finally, paying soldiers more will only lead them to spend it on better pot noodles.

The food in thiepval barracks was second to none when I was there

Originally Posted by Trax2go

The Telegraph reports that the House of Lords PAYD facilities in the Barry Room & Bishops' Bar have also been causing problems.

One peer told Lord Brabazon of Tara, the Lords’ Chairman of Committees, he wanted a refund after the food served in one of Parliament’s finest restaurants had left him humiliated in front of a eminent friend. “My wife and I were so embarrassed last night. We took a distinguished Italian guest to dine in the Barry Room. We all ordered the pork escallop [sic]. It was uneatable [sic]. Tough and dry and clearly cooked for hours before. It really was a disgrace. No one should be chef of the Barry Room who allows food like that to be served. We did not of course complain at the time for the obvious reason of not damaging the image our guest would have had of the occasion. Another wrote " I am aware that one noble Lord was served 'gone off' smoked salmon in the Bishops' Bar.

All this and 300 quid a day

Having had a look at the prices for the Lords restaurant (2010 prices admittedly, but I doubt they've collapsed to pay as you starve price levels since then), the cheapest main course on the winter menu is a steak and ale pie for £17.50 and a full English appears to cost £25 while a continental breakfast is a bargain £19.

I think I'd rather have PAYD prices and standards than those of the HofL thanks.

Originally Posted by Steven

It was brought in at the insistence of (a minority?) single soldiers who shouted loud enough that it was unfair making them pay for food they didn't want to eat..

I find this really, really hard to accept. Since when has the MOD listened to servicemen's views? Can someone provide hard evidence that the MOD has adopted a suggestion from the services (the lower ranks) that has increased costs? Or a sensible and widely-welcomed suggestion.

The reduction of LOA in the 1980s was widely condemned by serving soldiers in BAOR, letters were written to MPs, and at one Lt Col was sacked as a result of not toeing the party line. How odd this loudly shouted insistence was not listened to.

A replacement for the DMS boot. Serving soldiers complained loudly enough about this, as did MPs and Lords. The MOD was offered a highly regarded civvy boot, at cost. Oddly enough, they ignored this suggestion and went for the cheaper Boot, Combat High.

Waterproofs. Anyone remember the plea's for a decent waterproof clothing system, perhaps based on 'ventile'? Someone produced the cost to the MOD to issue the entire Service's cbt clothing made from ventile - at retail prices. Oddly enough, the MOD made a play of how they had issued every soldier with a rubber-based DPM waterproof at a cost of £10million (in 1984).

PAYD was bought in to cut costs - and service. That a minority of people didn't like the idea that it was their decision not to eat the food that they had paid for was simply a fortunate coincidence that was spun to the MODs liking.

Originally Posted by Biscuits_AB

Maybe it's me, it is Monday after all, but I'm finding it hard to make the connection between cook house waste, your anecdotes and skint squaddies?

Sorry - i was probably being too arch for a Monday morning..

I wholly accept that running out of money in week 3/4 is down to the individual... however

My line is that PAYD is the latest step in the decline of what was a workable system. If I look back at the standard of feeding in cookhouses from the introduction of DMR, through contractorisation and finally to PAYD, it is a story of declining standards and waste..

The only way you are EVER going to get PAYD to work well is if the majority of the soldiers WANT to eat there, most of the time. That way, you can minimise waste and get the most benefit out of the kitchen. If you can't force soldiers to eat at the PAYD, you need to persuade them by producing attractive meals when they want to eat them. This is not easy to do, and takes skill, investment and constant effort.. If you don't believe me, just think how much effort goes into setting up a McDonalds or a Pizza Hut.

Frankly, I don't think nearly enough thought or resource was put into setting up PAYD. It may work in a few super garrisons by collective arrangements, however in most isolated camps there is never enough talented commerical people to make it work or enough resources put in to make it attractive.

Just like NAAFI, the result is cheap & nasty with all the capital being siphoned off into the pockets of management companies. The result will be the same.. nobody will go, the contracts will collapse if/when they remove the core meal subsidy because NOBODY will want to pay the higher prices...

My argument is that IF you want soldiers to eat in your PAYD facility, then you HAVE to make it attractive. IF most of the soldiers eat there, more money will come in, there will be less waste, and the facility will be successful - A virtuous circle..

If you try to run it on a shoestring - provide a crap service that is not economic then the only way you will make it work is by following Belsen management principles..

.. you choose!

Originally Posted by rikstar012

If soldiers can't budget for less than a fiver a day then they need to take a long hard look in the mirror - f-in mongs!

A thought. When soldiers go through training, it is assumed that they know nothing. They are taught everything. Including how to wash. How to shower. How to shave. The Army doesn't expect recruits to know how to do this, so it teaches them, both how to do it, and to the standard required.

Going back a stage earlier - the Army doesn't recruit rocket scientists. To put it rather bluntly, the entry standards are low. So why express surprise when some soldiers are incapable of budgeting. Maybe they dont even understand the concept, let alone how.

Why the assumptions that a soldier - who may not be the worlds brightest spark - who is shown how to wash and dress himself in training, magically knows how to budget?

Just a thought.

Anyone know the costs per person per day the caterers get?

In my day the duty fuckwits would tip up like clockwork mid month, wanting to sell their 1157 so they could go on the pop.
This lead to a major medical debate on the definition of brain death.

Seems it not just the mong budgetophobe squaddies that have a problem.

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