Thread: Legion Of Frontiersmen?

Originally Posted by Crusader

A bit of a tricky one, Rick. The new hat badge that we have been issued with over here is pressed brass and not very professional looking at all, unlike the original which was perfectly acceptable. We also have wire-woven badges for officers caps and berets, but all other-ranks wear the metal or staybrite version up to the rank of WO1.

All ranks wear a metal badge on our Stetsons, except for very senior officers, who wear a large woven badge. I agree with you that it is unnecessary, but it is in our Dress Regulations and so it really is not for us to decide whether to wear it or not. I do not like it, but I comply. Maybe when we have a change of leadership things will change, but until then we will just have to get on with it.

Hello Crusader,

Actually, as the Legion of Frontiersmen is entirely voluntary and uniforms are purchased by the individual members, I consider it to be completely up to us. If one doesn't want to look like one of these walts from the IOC then one can simply refuse to purchase shabby material.

It means that one can't participate in the parades, I suppose, but if you aren't proud of your uniform then you probably shouldn't be on parade anyway.

Being "proper" is the only thing that separates us from the splitter groups. I'm not just talking about the uniforms either....

God Guard Thee,

-Rick

Originally Posted by Frontiersmen

Hello Crusader,

Actually, as the Legion of Frontiersmen is entirely voluntary and uniforms are purchased by the individual members, I consider it to be completely up to us. If one doesn't want to look like one of these walts from the IOC then one can simply refuse to purchase shabby material.

It means that one can't participate in the parades, I suppose, but if you aren't proud of your uniform then you probably shouldn't be on parade anyway.

Being "proper" is the only thing that separates us from the splitter groups. I'm not just talking about the uniforms either....

God Guard Thee,

-Rick

Oh dear Rick, I fear you have misunderstood me completely. If you join an organisation...any organisation, it is necessary to comply with the rules pertaining, no matter if you like them or not. To do otherwise is disruptive, causes unrest and cannot be allowed. The original badge was perfectly acceptable with the very old ones being of brass and the more recent ones being staybrite. When the new one was introduced about two years ago, very few of us liked it, but we were told that it had been aproved by the Commonwealth Executive Committee and so that was it....end of story. I clung to mine until personally ordered to change it. You may be aware that even regular soldiers have exactly the same problem, with many wishing to cling to their old brass hat-badges in preference to new ones, and most disliking new designs on amalgamation of Regiments. I do not liike our new badge because it is of pressed metal, but it is at least brass and will polish-up nicely. It is not a matter of refusing to wear shabby material. After all, the army has been doing it for years, ever since Soldier 95 was issued and before that they accepted the SA80 in preference to a perfectly good SLR. Being very old and smelly, I still recall the dislike of the SLR when it was introduced and they said it was useless for drill and they preferred the good old Lee Enfield. You could probably trace this feeling all the way back to the Brown Bess musket!

On the matter of pride in unform, I am in fact very proud to wear mine, especially as I am the smartest b'stard on parade. No matter what criticism people make of us, they cannot fault our ceremonial uniform if worn corrrectly. Unfortunately, too many muppets buy items which do not fit correctly, fail to maintain their uniform in a parade-servicable manner and look like they got dressed in a hurricane. They are the ones who bring ridicule down upon us, as well as the Gilbert and Sullivan effect of the IOC, who we have already see well displayed on these pages.

Originally Posted by Frontiersmen

Actually, as the Legion of Frontiersmen is entirely voluntary and uniforms are purchased by the individual members, I consider it to be completely up to us.

Completely up to us? Well dang my breeches if that aint the daftest suggestion I heered in a long time. Course it aint "Up te us" What is the point in having a uniform if individuals decide to wear only the bits they want???

It means that one can't participate in the parades, I suppose,

Too darned tootin it does! Iffn ye comes on any of my parades half dressed with no badge in ya hat, you will be marching off agin pretty damn quick with a rabid Provost Corporal bitin yer ankles.


if you aren't proud of your uniform then you probably shouldn't be on parade anyway.

Nuthin wrong wi my duds. I keeps me buckskins good an supple and me fringes well-trimmed

Being "proper" is the only thing that separates us from the splitter groups. I'm not just talking about the uniforms either....So - wot does ye means young whippersnapper?


-Rick

Originally Posted by artois

Originally Posted by Gen_Melchett

As it is not our parade I shall be dressed in a city suit...

If your group is the authentic one, shouldn't it be there with the Belgiums (assuming you're all talking about the same parade)?

What do you mean, with the Belgiums?

Representatives of LOFIC join "l'Amicale des Anciens Combattants Belges en Grande-Bretagne" on three occasions each year, namely the parade at the Cenotaph in July, the ceremony at the Belgian War Memorial at Brookwood Cemetery, and the Kindling of the Torch at Westminster Abbey in November. I understand that some of our number are also members of the Anglo-Belgian Society and attend these occasions as such. The important thing is that they are there.

It was the Belgian military that was granted unique permission by George V in 1934 to parade uniformed and armed at the Cenotaph the Sunday before Belgium's National Day and not the Legion of Frontiersmen.



We have noticed CMO Frontiersmen parading from Horseguards in recent years and by and large doing the Legion of Frontiersmen great credit. We have not participated because we have grave reservations about joining a group of Frontiersmen that associates with individuals who dress up, quite frankly, like Christmas trees. Nevertheless, some of our number will be making contact this year and perhaps a way ahead can be found.

The most important thing at this time is the firm bond of friendship between our two countries.

Me thinks we must have had more posts than they have Frontiersmen. Can we have membership numbers please from one of our Frontiersperson correspondents, simple breakdown of officer and OR's would be OK? As would appear to live within 12 miles of a major unit in Northamptonshire and had no knowledge of them. This could of course be due to all Frontierspersons being engaged in int work trying to catch me hunting with dogs etc., still would be nice to know.

Originally Posted by Gunner82

Me thinks we must have had more posts than they have Frontiersmen. Can we have membership numbers please from one of our Frontiersperson correspondents, simple breakdown of officer and OR's would be OK? As would appear to live within 12 miles of a major unit in Northamptonshire and had no knowledge of them. This could of course be due to all Frontierspersons being engaged in int work trying to catch me hunting with dogs etc., still would be nice to know.

Why not start with your major unit in Northants?

Artois

Wellingborough is far to tough an area for old chaps to go searching for information, so can you give total numbers for the UK as a Frontiersperson you must know? Could swap for RBL numbers in Northants.

However nice looking hound you have.

Originally Posted by LOFIC

Originally Posted by artois

Originally Posted by Gen_Melchett

As it is not our parade I shall be dressed in a city suit...

If your group is the authentic one, shouldn't it be there with the Belgiums (assuming you're all talking about the same parade)?

What do you mean, with the Belgiums?

Representatives of LOFIC join "l'Amicale des Anciens Combattants Belges en Grande-Bretagne" on three occasions each year, namely the parade at the Cenotaph in July, the ceremony at the Belgian War Memorial at Brookwood Cemetery, and the Kindling of the Torch at Westminster Abbey in November. I understand that some of our number are also members of the Anglo-Belgian Society and attend these occasions as such. The important thing is that they are there.

It was the Belgian military that was granted unique permission by George V in 1934 to parade uniformed and armed at the Cenotaph the Sunday before Belgium's National Day and not the Legion of Frontiersmen.



We have noticed CMO Frontiersmen parading from Horseguards in recent years and by and large doing the Legion of Frontiersmen great credit. We have not participated because we have grave reservations about joining a group of Frontiersmen that associates with individuals who dress up, quite frankly, like Christmas trees. Nevertheless, some of our number will be making contact this year and perhaps a way ahead can be found.

The most important thing at this time is the firm bond of friendship between our two countries.

These geezers dont look like any Frontiersmen I have ever seen. Some of them are even in step :D

Originally Posted by Wild_Bill_Frontiersman

Originally Posted by LOFIC

Originally Posted by artois

Originally Posted by Gen_Melchett

As it is not our parade I shall be dressed in a city suit...

If your group is the authentic one, shouldn't it be there with the Belgiums (assuming you're all talking about the same parade)?

What do you mean, with the Belgiums?

Representatives of LOFIC join "l'Amicale des Anciens Combattants Belges en Grande-Bretagne" on three occasions each year, namely the parade at the Cenotaph in July, the ceremony at the Belgian War Memorial at Brookwood Cemetery, and the Kindling of the Torch at Westminster Abbey in November. I understand that some of our number are also members of the Anglo-Belgian Society and attend these occasions as such. The important thing is that they are there.

It was the Belgian military that was granted unique permission by George V in 1934 to parade uniformed and armed at the Cenotaph the Sunday before Belgium's National Day and not the Legion of Frontiersmen.



We have noticed CMO Frontiersmen parading from Horseguards in recent years and by and large doing the Legion of Frontiersmen great credit. We have not participated because we have grave reservations about joining a group of Frontiersmen that associates with individuals who dress up, quite frankly, like Christmas trees. Nevertheless, some of our number will be making contact this year and perhaps a way ahead can be found.

The most important thing at this time is the firm bond of friendship between our two countries.

These geezers dont look like any Frontiersmen I have ever seen. Some of them are even in step :D

They wouldn't, because they are Belgians exercising their right to parade uniformed and armed in Whitehall.

Originally Posted by Gunner82

Me thinks we must have had more posts than they have Frontiersmen. Can we have membership numbers please from one of our Frontiersperson correspondents, simple breakdown of officer and OR's would be OK?

Numbers.....UK - Proabably around 200, maybe more.
Canada...about the same.
Australia and New Zealand - a little less I think.

However, if you look at IOC and other splitter group numbers, their propaganda does not stand up to scrutiny. For instance, they claim hundreds of members, none of which are ever seen in UK, despite frequent requests for where they train or parade. They do not.

In Canada, their numbers are as follows:


1 Canadian Independent - 2 members (Commissioner Barry Metcalfe and Assistant Commisisoner Mrs Metcalfe).
Corps of Imperial Frontiersmen - 7
Australian Division - 1 (Why there should be an Australian Div member in Canada I cannot even begin to guess)
Canadian Division - 12 (old boys)

There are other individuals and splitters who I do not know of, but who are not worth even considering.

Originally Posted by Gunner82

As would appear to live within 12 miles of a major unit in Northamptonshire and had no knowledge of them. This could of course be due to all Frontierspersons being engaged in int work trying to catch me hunting with dogs etc., still would be nice to know.

Ha! Most Frontiersmen would be with you in hunting with dogs, especially our mounted members, three of whom are Masters of Foxhounds

Originally Posted by Gunner82

Artois

Wellingborough is far to tough an area for old chaps to go searching for information, so can you give total numbers for the UK as a Frontiersperson you must know? Could swap for RBL numbers in Northants.

However nice looking hound you have.

With no disrespect to our members in Wellingborough, most of them are old boys well beyond retirement age. Although this site usually distains the use of personal names, I know that I can use one here in order to prove authenticity. Our man in Wellingborough is Major Tanky Turner, who is probably well-known at the RBL and is also Secretary of the Northamptonshire Yeomanry I believe. Tanky is not on the Internet but would welcome any contact from interested personnel. He runs a medal-mounting business and is very competitive indeed.

Originally Posted by Gunner82

Artois

Wellingborough is far to tough an area for old chaps to go searching for information, so can you give total numbers for the UK as a Frontiersperson you must know? Could swap for RBL numbers in Northants.

However nice looking hound you have.

Frontiersperdescendant, if you please. I'm IOC; didn't you know?

Artois are good strong hounds, even if they are French.

Stella's a good strong beer as well, even if it's Belgique.

Originally Posted by Crusader

Originally Posted by Frontiersmen

Hello Crusader,

Actually, as the Legion of Frontiersmen is entirely voluntary and uniforms are purchased by the individual members, I consider it to be completely up to us. If one doesn't want to look like one of these walts from the IOC then one can simply refuse to purchase shabby material.

It means that one can't participate in the parades, I suppose, but if you aren't proud of your uniform then you probably shouldn't be on parade anyway.

Being "proper" is the only thing that separates us from the splitter groups. I'm not just talking about the uniforms either....

God Guard Thee,

-Rick

Oh dear Rick, I fear you have misunderstood me completely. If you join an organisation...any organisation, it is necessary to comply with the rules pertaining, no matter if you like them or not. To do otherwise is disruptive, causes unrest and cannot be allowed. The original badge was perfectly acceptable with the very old ones being of brass and the more recent ones being staybrite. When the new one was introduced about two years ago, very few of us liked it, but we were told that it had been aproved by the Commonwealth Executive Committee and so that was it....end of story. I clung to mine until personally ordered to change it. You may be aware that even regular soldiers have exactly the same problem, with many wishing to cling to their old brass hat-badges in preference to new ones, and most disliking new designs on amalgamation of Regiments. I do not liike our new badge because it is of pressed metal, but it is at least brass and will polish-up nicely. It is not a matter of refusing to wear shabby material. After all, the army has been doing it for years, ever since Soldier 95 was issued and before that they accepted the SA80 in preference to a perfectly good SLR. Being very old and smelly, I still recall the dislike of the SLR when it was introduced and they said it was useless for drill and they preferred the good old Lee Enfield. You could probably trace this feeling all the way back to the Brown Bess musket!

On the matter of pride in unform, I am in fact very proud to wear mine, especially as I am the smartest b'stard on parade. No matter what criticism people make of us, they cannot fault our ceremonial uniform if worn corrrectly. Unfortunately, too many muppets buy items which do not fit correctly, fail to maintain their uniform in a parade-servicable manner and look like they got dressed in a hurricane. They are the ones who bring ridicule down upon us, as well as the Gilbert and Sullivan effect of the IOC, who we have already see well displayed on these pages.

Hello Crusader,

No, I misunderstood you deliberately, I was trying to make a point. It's up to each of us to make sure that each and every thing we do as Frontiersmen is as correct as possible. Appearance in public is especially important, as it will likely be the first time people learn of us.

I am well aware that not every item of kit will be to everyone's liking, and of course I will wear what is appropriate. I merely want to ensure that the best possible options are chosen each and every time.

For the record, I prefer the Lee Enfield myself. They got the weight just right, for me anyway....

I'm glad that you are proud of your uniform. I am a little hesitant to wear mine, as there are so many splitters in my area. I know that shouldn't matter, but I don't want to be lumped in with them. You mentioned ill-fitting and poorly maintained uniforms, I've seen far too many. It's hard to say this diplomatically, but some of them were so large...I suppose the only diplomatic thing to say would be nothing....

This is where the LF policy of procuring our own kit does us harm, in my opinion, by allowing anyone to put together a version of the uniform. When someone leaves the LF, they take all of their kit with them. There is nothing to stop them from continuing to wear it, or from selling it to anyone. If there were items of kit that only active Frontiersmen could procure, and that stayed within LF control, then there might be fewer splinter groups being formed.

God Guard Thee,

-Rick