They were at the Festival of Remembrance, and even had a standard there.

Originally Posted by ViroBono

They were at the Festival of Remembrance, and even had a standard there.

I cant believe word hasn't got back to them, Grim Reaper didnt actually say I'm a Frontiersman did he?. Or are they just ignoring us (like Gentlemen :D ).

They served in the British Army in World War One and deserved to be on parade

http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/intro.htm

Capt. F.C. Selous, D.S.O.(killed in action) was a Frontiersmen in East Africa and was remembered by naming the Rhodesian 'Selous Scouts' after him.
A true Scout if I ever saw one!

Originally Posted by Mike_2817

They served in the British Army in World War One and deserved to be on parade

http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/intro.htm

Hmmm, that raises an interesting point. Should it be the actual personnel who served in WW1 who get to march in Remembrance Parades (not that there can be many left) or members of the undeniably weird organisation which claims to represent their traditions. This crosses my mind whenever I watch the Remembrance Parade and the commentator points out the contingent of London bus drivers. There is no doubt that some bus drivers probably behaved heroically during the Blitz but as far as I can tell, the average London bus driver today is a partially-sighted, asylum seeking paedophile with learning difficulties.

Anyway, my understanding is that members of the 'Legion of Frontiersmen' actually served as members of the British Army and not as an independent service, and thus have no more right to parade than the Reigate Rotary Club which no doubt also contributed members to the war effort.

http://www.frontiersmenhistorian.info/belgian2004.htm

read this, it seems they have a little parade of their own in London

[quote="chickenpunkThis crosses my mind whenever I watch the Remembrance Parade and the commentator points out the contingent of London bus drivers. There is no doubt that some bus drivers probably behaved heroically during the Blitz but as far as I can tell, the average London bus driver today is a partially-sighted, asylum seeking paedophile with learning difficulties. quote]

London Transport take part in the service because in WW1 many of them volunteered to drive their buses in France as makeshift APC's and ambulances. The contingent is from the Transport for London Old Comrades association, (an ex services club not the retired wing of the RMT)

Trotsky

From my limited dealings and I mean limited with the LOF as far as I can see if you made Pte in any army you are an automatic RSM at the least when you join them. Out of the 5 I know one is a busted copper, one is a stockbroker, one is a copper, one is a fireman and one a joiner. 4 of the 5 have never served in anybody's army. They are tending to recruit from the cadets now.

Fuck me I could be a General if I joined them.

- Legion of Frontiersmen never had the pretenderer "Prince Michael of Albany" as a member .The LOF is under Commonwealth Command it's long term patron being Patricia , Countess Mountbatten. Her grandfather Prince Louis being a founder member of LoF, and her father The Late Earl of Mountbatten (murdered by PIRA) nominating her to LoF. ' The Albany character was patron of the australian branch of an imitiation calling itself "Independent overseas command"; nothing to do with LoF proper.UK Secretary of State for War Haldane declared the LoF an auxilliary branch of British Intelligence in 1910. The Lof went on to receive 8 battle honours, establish 4 Imperial regiments and a number of battalions of the Australian and New Zealand Lighthorse and by WW2 had at least 12 VCs to their names. Not bad for a bunch of "cowboys"
- Irish Tartans, whilst it is correct that the so-called country tartans of Ireland are a modern invention. 40 Irish families were granted tartans by King James II in 1689. At that time there were more family tartans registered in Ireland than were registered in Scotland
- MacCarthy Mor. Terence MacCarthy indeed does live in Tangiers and was recognised by the Chief Herald of Ireland as Chief of the Clan MacCarthy and did indeed sit on the Council of Irish Chiefs of the name. MacCarthy Mor did not grant the title Castleshort to James Shortt of Castleshort since the title has existed in James Shortt's family since the mid-1400's. The Shortt (MacAnghearre) family are recorded as Scottish Galloglas (Galloglaigh) that arrive in County Tyrone from Scotland in 13th Century and whose deeds are recorded in both the ancients texts "Book of the 4 Masters" and the "Annals of Ulster". You are correct that whilst recognised as the MacCarthy Mor, Terence MacCarthy did grant/sell titles to Yanks. He was pursued by "Burkes Peerage" as a source of purchased honours. This is not in the same way British Peers have received their "honours" from the First Duke of Westminister, through to the Barons created by Lloyd George to your nice Mr Blair who creates Peers for financial donations. No the Yanks paid Terence MacCarthy a hell of alot less - more fool him. However he had no power to grant titles to the old families like Shortt of Castleshort, or Marmion of Duhallow, O'Sullibhan of Castletownbeare, The O'Donovan or The O'Donoghue or The MacGillicuddy of the Reeks who titles are recorded in tomes such the "The MacCarthy Mor" written in 1912 when even Terence MacCarthy was but a "twinkle of a twinkle of a twinkle in his grandfather's eye". Baron James Shortt of Catleshort is not however Irish-American as you claim, nor has he ever been. Born in London of Irish parentage and Irish citizenship - he lives in Ireland. So unless UK is just another State of the Union under George Bush jnr, the Yanks can't claim him.
Point of information Terence McCarthy was stripped of his "courtesy title" by the Irish Herald's office after he wrote a book - Ulster Office exposing the fraud that Irish Government department ran by which persons could purchase an Irish Coat of Arms which Irish Courts could not constitutionally recognise. MacCarthy's book was foreworded by one of QE2's heralds (another sin in republican eyes). MacCarthy also publicly criticises Eamon de Valera, the old IRA leader at a time when the old scuzzbucket's grand daughter Sinead de Valera was the Minister for Culture in charge of the Irish Herald's office. The individual responsible for the "expose" is a mysterious sad little character called "Sean Murphy" who said he did it to protests about the lack of work he as an "amateur and self appointed" herald received from the Herald's Office. Murphy the very epitomy of Irish Begrudgery pursued virtually all the named Irish Chiefs as frauds in his tainted "research". He based his observations on Gaelic inheritance on the German/British method of direct bloodline (nearest male blood relative) rather than the Gaelic method of Tanistry by which the majory of Gaelic Chieftains are appointed. Suprisingly he ceased pursuing the issue after he did the hatchet job on Terence MacCarthy for the Irish Herald's Office and dropped out of the public eye. Well as we say you can always get an Irishman to Hang another Irishman for the Government as long as everyone can blame the English - after all it was their rope.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear...what have we got here?

Someone who it appears actually gives some credence to the "MacCarhty Mór" (or MacCarthy 'No More') codswallop....

I notice you deftly avoid addressing the matter of Terence MacCarthy (so-called) living in Tangiers (difficult to be extradited from such a well-known bolthole) with his male lover, a convicted extortionist, who - would you believe it? - also acquired a title around the time that Terence was pulling the wool over so many peoples' eyes.

Who exactly conferred the title of baron on James Shortt's family, and are you aware that such noble titles did not exist in the Gaelic system? - it would have to have been granted by the Scottish or English monarchies, for which there should be documentary proof, else it does not exist. Interesting that you don't mention this.

Actually, in answer to my own question, I would direct you to the website of the 'Royal Galloglas Guard':

http://home.earthlink.net/~rggsibiba...stleshort.html

Astonishingly, and I quote - "The Lordship of Castleshort is a baronial level fief of the Lordship of Kerslawny (Chois Leammhna - along the banks of the River Laune). This was created as a lordship by King Tadgh II, The MacCarthy Mór circa 1390 AD, for his second son Prince Cormac MacCarthy."

Now, there is an interesting linkage, as what were those titles which Terence 'MacCarthy' liked to use...ah yes, "Tadhg V, The MacCarthy Mór, Prince of Desmond and Lord of Kerslawny" (rattling off Terence's supposed titles and honours is always guranteed to raise a laugh in academic circles in Ireland) - I'll be very daring and suggest that perchance did James Shortt receive his title from a certain soi-disant MacCarthy prince in 1995?

Further quotes from the 'Baron of Castleshort's' personal biography (or 'Lord of the Barony', the precise designation being a little flexible) make interesting reading - "The present Lord of the Barony is James Shortt of Castleshort, receiving the title on the feast of St Peter & Paul in June 1995." [when Terence 'MacCarthy' was most obviously running amok and flogging titles]. Also, I note that James Shortt received his title - interesting that he should receive his title, when an hereditary title should of course be inherited.

and:

"The Baron & Baroness Castleshort are both members of the Niadh Nask in the 3rd Division (families noble after 1597)." [now there is a surprise; it should also read "Baron & Baroness of Castleshort"].

The website says that "James Gerard Richard Shortt (Séamus Géroid Rístead MacAngearr) was born in 1953" and that "[h]e studied initially for the Catholic priesthood for 5 years and entered the Capuchin Franciscan Order (Irish Province). In 1976, he left the Capuchin order..."

However, the website then goes on to say that "The Baron of Castleshort has an extensive and varied military background. From 1975 he was Director of Training for The Combat Training Team, with responsibility for training Regular & Reserve NATO forces in Combat skills (Close-Quarter-Battle, Combat Survival and Combat Medicine). Following service with elite military units he was contracted to train specialist units in both anti-terrorist and counter-terrorist skills, including training units of the United States Army and Air Force in 1980, 1983 - The Belgian Para-Commando Regiment, 1987/88 - NIFA Mujihadeen, 1988/89 The Swedish Defence Forces). From 1983-1987, James was Director of Projects for Special Training Services under Vice-Admiral Sir Peter Austin and fielded counter-terrorist projects in Algeria, Nigeria, Kuwait and The United States of America."

Are we to therefore assume that he began acquiring his "extensive and varied military background" whilst still a Capuchin friar (therefore he was not an ordained priest - another slip). Which army and what "élite military units" did he actually serve in? The paragraph quoted above - despite appearing impressively chock full of military detail - is strangely unspecific. Personally, I find it remarkable that within 1-5 years of starting his military career (aged 23, or 22 if he started as a Capuchin...), he seems to have shot to the top of his profession. What is surprising and disappointing is that James Shortt does seem to be a man of some professional ability and achievement (despite the seemingly shaky detail of his biography), which does make me wonder why he has associated himself with the whole MacCarthy Mór nonsense. Whatever the truth, something doesn't add up here...

Furthermore, it is noteworthy that no previous holder of this title has heretofore come to attention until now (despite James Shortt supposedly being a chevalier and hereditary Colonel commandant of the "Royal Galloglas Guard") and that Shortt so clearly associates himself with the laughable and outrageously camp "Royal Galloglas", a most Irish-American organisation - and which you also avoid mentioning. The 'G2 intelligence branch' of this comic-opera group apparently threatened anyone investigating the claims of the 'MacCarthy Mór', another aspect of this case which you chose not to mention. The "Royal Galloglas Guard" also claims to be the royal guard of Munster (Terence 'MacCarthy Mórss' kingdom mind you) and is associated with the Niadh Nask and the Honourable Society of the Irish Brigade - all of which were founded by, associated with or patronised by the former 'MacCarthy Mór'.

Terence MacCarthy's courtesy recognition - a practice initiated by Chief Herald Edward MacLysaght in 1944 based on primogeniture descent from the last recognised holder of a Gaelic Irish title - was withdrawn by the Office of the Chief Herald following an investigation which discovered that he had falsified genealogical documents and proofs, and that he was in all probability a MacCartney, and not a MacCarthy (the latter name not exactly being thick on the ground in Northern Ireland). He also sought to have attention drawn away from the fact that he was born in Belfast and that his father and grandfather were from distinctly non-aristocratic backgrounds - I seem to recall mention being made of a bricklayer and dance teacher. I have heard of Sean Murphy, regard him as something of a sorehead*, but also recognise that Terence MacCarthy was stripped of his title before Sean Murphy became involved with the case. I take it you saw the illustrated article on the MacCarthy Mór controversy in the weekend magazine section of the Irish Times some years ago. If you did, you might have seen all the various assorted social-climbing types, clothed in their Ruritanian pantomime uniforms and bedecked like Christmas trees in orders, ribbons and decorations, all set off by their inane and distinctly plebian faces straight out of Punch Magazine, as they grinned for the cameras - not one of these people even remotely resembled an aristocrat, no more than the MacCarthy Mór himself did. You also appear to be unaware that the 'MacCarthy Mor' and his associates were/are involved with the 'Order of St. Lazarus', another comic-opera organisation which attracts social-climbing snobs, the historically illiterate, and those inclined to dress-up - take yourself along to Christ Church Cathedral in Dublin (the Church of Ireland display a finer sense of humour in allowing these people to meet on their premises than the Catholic Church does) of a weekend evening and give yourself a laugh.

I notice you make mention of Marmion of Duhallow - would this be the same 'Chevalier' William F.K. Marmion, who styles himself 'Lord of Duhallow' and whose book Gaelic Titles and Forms of Address attempted to give credence to the MacCarthy Mor and his so-called Niadh Nask (Order of the Golden Collar/Chain)? A subsequent edition had to distance itself from much 'fact' contained in the first. I don't think we need to speculate as to when Mr. Marmion came by his title (mid-1990s perchance?) and from whom he obtained it?

It is estimated that the so-called MacCarthy Mór made somewhere in the region of US$1,000,000 from the sale of bogus titles and for admission to this order of knighthood - indeed, he might well have made more, but then perhaps he wasn't a very Creative conman.

On another point of historical accuracy, Eamon de Valera was not "the old IRA leader" - he was president of Sinn Féin, and then Fianna Fáil. If, as you claim, "Prince Michael of Albany"was not a member of the Legion of Frontiersmen, why then was he listed on their website as such? Doubtless you might also explain why they had a link to a website lauding Oswald Mosley?

It is interesting that you should suddenly appear out of the ether and post on this subject. The 'MacCarthy Mór' was exposed as a fraud some time ago, and those who believed and supported him as either knaves or fools. You have most definitely been rumbled - drop this subject before you start to look truly ridiculous.

As to your decision to designate yourself 'galloglaigh' (really, now why did you go and do that?) in direct response to my posting...well, that's the sort of stunt a troll here on ARRSE would pull.

*In fairness, Sean Murphy contributed a great deal towards 'smoking out' the whole MacCarthy Mór business, and has received a great deal of abuse in return. He's a 'sorehead' in my view to the extent that he gets into internet-based spats with various aristocratic and genealogical chancers. That said, I'd love to see him focus on Shortt.

**edited due to formatting problems (bloody quotation marks...)

You've set the tone and style of the discussions in your rant so let us dance to your tune, but get the words right this time.
The Gay McCarthy and his deceased boyfriend obviously get up you nose as well as your ARRSE. :P
De Valera in 1923 lead the IRA after the death in combat of General Liam Lynch and the shooting by Free State Firing squad of the remaining senior officers of the "irregulars". He signed the lay down arms order. Even to this day people have problems determining who is IRA and who is Sinn Fein. Ask the Det and the FRU. Prior to 1923 De Valera called himself President of Dail Eireann when in fact he was appointed Priome Aire (prime minister) according to the minutes of the First Dail. The boss of Sinn Fein was Arthur Griffiths its founder, not Evil Valera, Eamonn Og was the last surviving leader of the Irish Republic declared at the Dublin GPO in Easter 1916. The rest being shot by the British and General Blackadder.
and yes there are no aristocrats except British aristos definitielly up yr ARRSE :P . The Irish Times photo you refer to is filled with persons such as The Magillycuddy of the Reeks, Lord Inchiquin (otherwise The O'Brien), The O'Donoghue, The Maguire to name but a few. Of course Gallowglass you recognise the old seated dear in the front - Yep That is the widow of The Papal Marquis MacSweeney of Manshanglass. The MacSweeney - premier Galloglass clan. From the 12th century Gaelic Kings created barons in their own kingdoms and even awarded the title to Mercenary Norman Knights who fought for them. The Gaelic Term "Cane Poble" being translated from the time of Richard II by the norman english government as Baron. The Gaelige for Lord is "Tiarna". In 1176 , Raymond le Gros was made Baron of Lixnaw in Kerry by Diarmuis 1, MacCarthy Mor in exchange for suppressing a rebelion by his son Prince Cormac MacCarthy. Not a Terence fact but one in tomes 3-400 years before he was born. Not the first time I've heard some mongrel pronounce on who he thinks are mingers and monkeys. Again that is your bias and you are welcome to it -says a lot about you and little about your targets.
The Marmion of Duhallow I refer to is a branch of the MacDonough clan. One Anthony Marmion author in 1858 of "The Ancient and Modern History of the Maritime Ports of Ireland" wrote in a translation of a gaelige documents about Irish nobles and the Nasc Nia.
1858 -2006 - could it be possibly be the came man you speak of. As for Shortt and your sniping at him from good cover why not contact the man - you have his websites.Ask the man the questions that seem to roll stones across your soul yeh Agoro. Still your in the right place a rumour forum rather that a fact forum. Who knows you might get another GSM or even a yank purple heart.
Checking the websites you suggest does show that there were Irish Americans in a detachment called the St Brendan's (the Irish saint with the big old navigator's head on him). All the rest are Irishmen living in Ireland. Though these were associated with Terry Mac - he did not establish them and he is no longer associated with them - their choice. Big old expert head on you after the facts ; not before them.
Niadh Nasc was Terry Macs creation - the historical evidence points to a Nasc Nia as (refers in gaelic to a valuable bond or oath not a chain of Gold as claimed by Terry)a company of bodyguards in Munster (Desmond being Southern Munster and Thormond being Northern Munster to correct your earlier preaching on what was the Kingdom of Desmond. The present day Niad Nasc is organised by the Scottish Chieftain The MacKerrel of Hillhouse, and disassociate themselves from MacCerthy and his "successor" baby brother. Get your facts straight The Irish Heralds office to this day still refuse to release or discuss any of the papers relating to the "MacCarthy" episode. They have made no statement of why the courtesy title was withdrawn , except a quote to enquriing journalists as to certain irregularities in the original application. The whole matter was "exposed" in the Sunday Times (Irish edition) with Sean Murphy as their quoted source. Murphy was the individual who challenged the Office on their recognition and started the ball rolling. So contrary to what you state wee Sean gets the credit (or rather should we say his buddies Scott and George who were at the time backing an alternative MacCarthy Mor). Suprise - Scott and Sean both live in Bray and both have dealings with the Irish Herald's office. The alternative MacCarthy Mor is the descendant of a Man who changed his name by deedpoll to MacCarthy Mor after Norroy and Ulster Herald refused to recognise him. That's right the forerunner of the Irish Republic's Herald - The British Kingdom of Ireland prior to 1922 rejected the application. Interesting having an Irish Republic's chief Herald who has never trained in Heraldry but was a senior librarian. Dammit those G2 fairies are good - ya gurrier Bottomline ; you have a right to your bias - though you may choose your the facts as they suit you and you can't be bothered to sift the many half truths and errors, or leave off your pathetic name calling "Troll" - sad. I won't ask you why Royal Galloglas and matters Irish get up your portals, perhaps Terry held on to your postal orders and didn't send you the shiny lord of the dance badge, but what ever gets you through the night, garsoon. When you want a civilised debate of facts I am on - sticks and stones. Is deacair ceann crionna a chur ar cholainn oig ,gaige !
Heh gallowglass what is your problem with me being Galloglaigh, your legal patent or something? did you get your name from the Ruth Rendell book ?? Galloglass were defenders of nobility not detractors ( for a price of course).