the thumb sphygmanometer used to measure blood pressure. Difficult to use and dangerously inaccurate

What about the 1985 Pattern Combat jacket? *Sneeze whilst wearing it and the arms flew off!

And No2 Dress.
The dreaded Ginger Hessian Suit... 21st century army in ill fitting 19th century torture clothing.....

Well you chaps just think yerselves lucky with CS95 kit. In 1987 Boots Cardboard High, Shirt KF (fibreglass against skin) was part of working dress. No matter how many times you tried to shave and add softner to Shirts KF (Khaki Flannel for you red arses) you would end up having the the top layer of skin removed - ouch! Basic training was intolerable in those bloody things. They were the worst bit of kit issued in NATO!!! Along with Kidney pouches on '58 webbing - total crap. Milletts done good business selling us Bungees to hold the stuff together so it wouldnt flap about around yer arse looking like a Gypsy caravan

Swing the lamp, those were the days! zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Junior leaders

Ah, that's not fair. The humble KF shirt was a right of passage. Once you had nurtured and overcome the pain of the KF shirt, it became your best shirt. It took me ages to get mine soft, but once it was, the creases would stay in it forever, and it always looked pressed. Then some smarmy RS CSM in the REME forced me to exchange it for bloody Shirt OG, which was a bugger to iron, and creases would just appear in it by just looking at it. But not where you wanted them. Luckly Shirt OG was a passing fad, and CS95 shirts took over. Not much better, but at least we don`t notice all the extra creases...

Toms today get it so easy... Bet they don`t even need to iron their Gary Gortex. Stupid JNCO's had us iron our DPM Crisp Bags... *Wasn`t being a junior fun....
:o

Ref. the Chain Gun - how right you are. *When I was in Warrior I never ceased to be amazed by my gunner, struggling to take the gun to bits to clear a stoppage whilst we bounced cross country. *Then hunting the turret for little bits of chain gun. *It NEVER worked. *RIGs would claim your drills were poor, but it would appear that just firing the thing was bad drills. *And what sort of gun doesn't work if the batteries are flat?

Sorry for raising this old thread but couldn't resist it.

The main reason for this weapon being adopted was that it eliminated any toxicity from the weapon into the turret. Those who have fired the GPMG in an MBT or CVR(T) will remember the fumes. *

If there is a reasonable way of reducing health hazards to our soldiers in particular during training, the MOD must now adopt it, hence no GPMG.

The chain gun is a far more complicated weapon than the GPMG and it certainly had some teething problems when it was introduced into service - mainly concerning the feed chute. However with a well trained gunner and a mechanically sound gun - the effects of the weapon can be devasting eg GW1.

With regards to the chain gun and batteries - I agree that it cannot be fired, and I accept that in a perfect world it should. However, if no batteries not much else in the vehicle would be working, and therefore far better to have left it long time ago. *;)

Come on now Ramillies.
What's the score with having a weapon that you have to fully dismantle just to clear a stoppage, and that's if you haven't had to wait 10 minutes fr the pleasure of one of those special top-halves.

The weapon is good when it functions, and notwithstanding having a good gunner, the link we are supplied with and the fact that the gun is still intended to be gravity fed means that it is inherently flawed. *Health and safety my arrse, it's not going to be particularly healthy or safe with Youssouf and his brothers bearing down on your panzer when you cannot hose them down because your gun is in twelve bits, the turret monster having eaten a part of it.

I take your points DM, however the 10 min rule is for peace time only but the need to break down the gun in the event of a split case or serious stoppage is a good one - and certainly not ideal ! *

H&S aspects are a bore I know. However as you are aware MOD no longer has crown immunity and in this litigation rich environment if a serviceman can prove that in training the MOD was negligent, and/or suffered an injury that could have reasonably been prevented, then claims are paid out of the defence budget, which could have been used for better things - like better equipment ! (This would a good topic for another discussion - is the Army promoting a risk adverse culture - IMOH we are ! We must get used to risk and learn how to handle it without is reducing our capability to fight - and to fight to the best of our ability).

I am not saying the CG is the best weapon in the world, however it is an extremely effective weapon. A significant disadvantage is that a gunner needs considerably more training to use it compared to the GPMG - though it is far more accurate than the GPMG. But with a good gunner . . the rythmic beat of a CG is music to the ear ! *:D

Any views or comments on a better weapon that is not cost prohibitive would be welcome.

And therein lies the rub...

We (AI) had been told that we'd be receiving a Wr MLI which would include an improved weapon system (poss 40mm & new coax). *This we are now informed, will not be included in the MLI. *With BGTI there will be a steped improvement, especially with the LRF, but no stabilised gun means we still have to go static to fire the main armament with any realistic chance of hitting (notwithstanding a ninja gunner, which I am indeed happy to be able to say I do have).

The current Rarden, which is probably the most amazing piece of engineering I have ever seen, is well old. *And whilst reliable and accurate, it is now of too small a calibre to defeat anything post BMP2 (I know that your average baddie isn't likely to be armed with anything more than that), unless you get it by the arrse. *It is also not an automatic system, hence no real sustained fire.

And whilst I am on the subject, we (unlike last time in the desert, with MCTS) cannot fire any of our ATk systems Under Armour. *The poor Milaneer / Spiker / Javeliner (whatever we get), still has to dismount, which with a well drilled crew will take time, probably at least a minute plus by the time they have debussed in dead ground and tabbed into position. *The MILAN turret brackets for Wr are insufficient, and a missile cannot be left mounted least it be shakjen to the point of failure whilst in transit. *It also requires said man to hang out of the top of his turret thereby exposing himself. *Firing from the back decks is similarly no good as that means at least all of the turret exposed.

But there is a solution out there. *Desert Wr turrets would solve the majority of the problems (although I would still argue that the gun needs to be larger than the current Bushmaster). *That said, with a true anti-tank capability, the calibre of the gun becomes less relevant as it then becomes predominantly AP in nature.

But that would probs cost too much / casts in factory binned etc.

And hey, if we spend the money on that, we wont be able to afford this pay rise!

DM,

Yes . . . a sad tale. The lack of a stabilised gun and a duel feed system (HE/anti armour) are key disadvantages especially when most other nations have it in their IFVs. It simply comes down to money. There is only one pot of gold and I do not envy those who have to make the decision whether to go for one equipment programme or the other. All I can I say - is they are like you and I, and are very frustrated at the difficult decsions they have to make - but such is life. That said - I think the MLI programme is delayed rather cancelled.

Firing anti tank weapons from Under Armour - yes.. of course we should be able to do it. In the balance though with support from OA, there are other priorities. In general terms, though the Inf should have the capability of taking on MBTs in extremis, it is best left to our other assets who form part of the All Arms environment. This may apprear a glib comment but it is not meant as such. I am afraid that there are only so many slices of cake to go around as I said before.

Desert WARRIOR *. . . I am well versed in this one but my hands are tied commenting in this forum on the adv and disadv - and I am sure you gather why ! * The Bushmaster though is a really excellent weapon. I am a big fan having fired it many times. One of the drawbacks though is the intrusion into the turret and if you look inside other IFVs who use this weapon there is no room to swing even a rat let alone a cat *

So in summary - yes .. with you all on the points you raise but we need more money to do it all. I wonder if the Army can enter the lottery ? :D