ARmy Rumour SErvice

Condolences to 2/1 RNZIR, worked with Kiwi Gunners in the Balkans moons ago, just like us but with funnier accents.

As haunting as listening to the lone Piper playing 'Flowers of the Forest' and 'Lovat's Lament' at our ceremonies.

That was one hell of a send off and mark of respect from the rest of the unit. When it started the first thought, due to my own ignorance, was along the lines of what the…. By the end I felt suitably humbled. The fall back to silence at the end was particularly poignant and moving.

It is said that during the First World War, the Maori Battalion was the highest decorated and sustained the most casualties of all Kiwi units. There were a lot of Maoris in this unit. Are these the modern day descendants?

RIP soldier.

Originally Posted by WolvoExPunk

It is said that during the First World War, the Maori Battalion was the highest decorated and sustained the most casualties of all Kiwi units. There were a lot of Maoris in this unit. Are these the modern day descendants?

RIP soldier.

I believe it's highly likely that the Maoris alive today are descendants of previous generations of Maoris.

No, sorry, what I meant was the present day ones as a regimental lineage, not necessarily their great-great grandsons.

I've had yet another look at the clip, and note that the NZDF have added this, which may be useful (was to me.)

Haka is used throughout New Zealand by many, not only Māori, to demonstrate their collective thoughts. There is a haka for each of the Services, as well as the Defence Force. Units with the NZ Army have their own haka. This video shows the soldiers of 2/1 RNZIR Battalion performing their Unit haka, powerfully acknowledging the lives and feats of their fallen comrades as they come onto the Unit's parade ground. It is also an emotive farewell for they will leave via the waharoa (the carved entrance way) for the very last time.

Haka --sometimes termed a posture dance could also be described as a chant with actions. There are various forms of haka; some with weapons some without, some have set actions others may be 'free style.' Haka is used by Māori (indigenous people of New Zealand) for a myriad of reasons; to challenge or express defiance or contempt, to demonstrate approval or appreciation, to encourage or to discourage, to acknowledge feats and achievements, to welcome, to farewell, as an expression of pride, happiness or sorrow. There is almost no inappropriate occasion for haka; it is an outward display of inner thoughts and emotions. Within the context of an occasion it is abundantly clear which emotion is being expressed.

Originally Posted by WolvoExPunk

No, sorry, what I meant was the present day ones as a regimental lineage, not necessarily their great-great grandsons.

We don't have a Maori Battalion as such any more, in the same way that the Yanks no longer have anything equivalent to the (breathtakingly racist) 555 Airborne of yore. But I can guarantee you that many of the Maori blokes serving now are the lineal descendants of those that served in the two world wars, the family military tradition is VERY strong with Maori...

...as is the tribal culture. The "tribe" is of huge importance to Maori - it defines their place in the world - but the definition of a tribe is fluid, so it's not JUST about your genealogical ancestry. So, Maori can define their tribe with respect to a sporting team, or a regiment, or a geographic area, or school, or more worryingly a criminal gang. Each tribe has certain identifying characteristics and they tend to create things like hakas which reflect each tribe...hence each regiment might have its own individual version and you would need to learn it, and perform it, to be accepted as part of that group.

Pakeha (white) New Zealand doesn't have such a strong tribal tradition, and we're poorer for it I think.

Liking the Name Mr Weetabix.

Tribalism is difficult to do without the costs outweighing the benefits.