Oh don't get me started on benefits...


PS Why are all the grown-ups in the NAAFI? I don't like it....

My bro hasn't worked in 20 years. He was carer for my autistic nephew...until 7 years ago. Not worked a day in the last 20 years, despite the fact that he could have done so for several of them. Happy to put his hand out for carers allowance, but not so keen on actually doing anything to earn it. They had Sky loooooooooooooong before I did, and now get a FREE landline due to nephew's autism. The fact that my nephew has around 9 mobiles on the go means nothing, they neeeeeed a landline due to an emergency arising. They have way more luxury than I do, but I work p/t and am a single parent. I do that because I can be around for my kid and have self-respect. Benefits do need shaking up, and that's from someone who spent 3 years on IS when my tw@t ex left me in the lurch. If I can go to work why can't everyone else? I work in a warehouse, mind numbingingly boring but pays my bills (just). There is one 'woman' I know who had 5 kids by about the age of 23. She was talking to a mate and didn't even know the ages of her kids, she just knew to the penny how much was coming in. Wrong, just so bloody wrong.

Originally Posted by Kalle_M

That's an extremely pessimistic and gloomy picture you're painting there, Jimmy's bezza and very far removed from reality.

In principle, nothing would change, just that the banks would then be owned by the people (and most importantly, so would the Bank of England) and the profits could be used in a direct way for the good of the population and not to finance incompetent managers and shareholders. All debts would be honoured. There could be the case that the vindictive, still Hayek/Friedman-struck Septics would attempt to influence the purchase of UK gobment bonds, but it's doubtful whether they'd have much pull with PIMCO - Pacific Investment Company of California. Not exactly a household name, but by far the largest buyer of gobment bonds in the world. However, the folks there are notoriously independent and they have so much financial clout that not even the Septic gobment can afford to piss them off.

Further measures to be introduced would be: nationalisation of gas, leccy, water, health-care and housing, thus reducing with a stroke the prices paid by, literally, billions. That means that folks would have much more disposable income and would trigger an increase in demand, which in turn would trigger an increase in employment to meet it.

Research and development would also be nationalised, since most of the inventions used by humankind were funded by taxpayers initially.

Overall, the UK would thrive and provide its citizens with a secure, peaceful and satisfying political, social and cultural life. Who could ask for more?

MsG

"Banks of england owned by the people", I doubt most people will understand the complexities of the MPC and what level to set interest rates.

"Profits used for the good of the population", you mean even more benefits and a bloated public sector. I must point out that its been shown time and time again that nationalisation is both productively and allocatively inefficient. This was shown in the seventies when the national utilities had to be constantly subsidised.
Furthurmore what your also hinting at is protectionism which is also shown to damage an economy.

"Most inventions used by mankind were funded by the taxpayer" I find this fact very dubious to say the least, did Edison, Fleming, Graham-Bell (or that Italian bloke no-one cares about) have funding from the taxpayer? Granted NASA was funded by the taxpayer, but most R and D comes from firms trying to come up with a brand new product to compete with others.

"Nationalisation will create more disposable income", if you slash prices then that moneys got to come out of somewhere, i.e the workers pockets hence reducing aggregate demand. Also it is unlikely they could make the prices naturally low as stated before, nationalised services are generally inefficient.

You may realise this is not in chronological order, but "incompetant shareholders", my grandparents whom I currently live with have shares so they can live of the dividends because Gordo messed up the pensions. Nationalising banks would take all there hard earned equity, my grandma has emphysema, we need that dividend money for health insurance because your NHS has screwd up so badly. And you say were taking from the needy. My grandparents have never claimed or lived on benefits, they have had to work hard for all they earn. you would take al that away in the name of the collective. You are the one who doesnt care my friend.

The definition of insanity:

Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results.


Socialism has never worked and has always failed. QED: All socialists are by definition insane.

Originally Posted by cadethopefull

"Most inventions used by mankind were funded by the taxpayer" I find this fact very dubious to say the least, did Edison, Fleming, Graham-Bell (or that Italian bloke no-one cares about) have funding from the taxpayer? Granted NASA was funded by the taxpayer, but most R and D comes from firms trying to come up with a brand new product to compete with others.

According to wiki NASA got 19 billion dollars in 2011 from the Yankee taxpayer. Lucky for them the USA doesnt have any debt problems.

Originally Posted by stacker1

According to wiki NASA got 19 billion dollars in 2011 from the Yankee taxpayer. Lucky for them the USA doesnt have any debt problems.

And you posted that on a small desktop PC that was in large part a product of the NASA moon programme.
NASA pioneered some 6,300 technological innovations and developments, that led to about 30,000 spin off products, many of them essential parts of our everyday lives.
NASA is great value for money.

Originally Posted by sunnoficarus

And you posted that on a small desktop PC that was in large part a product of the NASA moon programme.
NASA pioneered some 6,300 technological innovations and developments, that led to about 30,000 spin off products, many of them essential parts of our everyday lives.
NASA is great value for money.

Could someone have thought of those technological innovations without them? And the those paying the taxes directly got a return on their investment rather than the many private companies cashing in?
My computer is a Sony, I'm not sure how a Japanese company (and I can't be arsed seeing if its got made in China stamped on it)flogging inventions to the British off the back of NASA has helped Amercian tax payers. Although it does seem to be fantastic value for for the rest of the world.

Originally Posted by stacker1

Could someone have thought of those technological innovations without them? And the those paying the taxes directly got a return on their investment rather than the many private companies cashing in?
My computer is a Sony, I'm not sure how a Japanese company (and I can't be arsed seeing if its got made in China stamped on it)flogging inventions to the British off the back of NASA has helped Amercian tax payers. Although it does seem to be fantastic value for for the rest of the world.

But why did they have NASA, to compete with russia, and thats the point, competition is necessary to fuel R and D in any case

Bugsy, could you answer me a simple question?

I'm in the middle of a thirteen hour shift, some of it outside in subzero temperatures, I'll get home at around 0730 in the morning, get a few hours sleep and then get up and do the same tomorrow night.
I'm on reasonably low pay and I've never claimed a single penny of benefits.
I don't smoke and very rarely drink.
Could you please tell me why it is right that some stranger can effectively take a slice of my wages in order to sit in idleness all day long, smoking tabs, drinking beer and staring at the telly?

And please don't spin the usual waffle from the benefits apologists about how much I should be grateful to even get work and that it's my duty to help those who are unable to find a job. In my personal opinion there are very few people in this country genuinely unemployed, but there are a lot of people unwilling to do the jobs available.

Sent from my Blackberry 9800 using Tapatalk and a head dobber

Originally Posted by Kalle_M

If Centrica ceased all dividend payments, the prices for gas and electricity from the company would drop by 22 percent. Eliminating advertising, the obscenely bloated salaries of the 67 (that's right, sixty-seven!) board members and the bungs to politicians would mean a further consumer saving of between 18 and 27 percent (the span is so wide because nobody actually knows how much is spent on bungs). So your man nanotm isn't so wide of the mark.

MsG

Lolwut? Centrica has a net profit margin of 4.65% and 75% of this is paid out in dividends. How does that translate to a 22% price cut with dividends removed?

Centrica PLC (CNA.L) Financials | Reuters.com

Originally Posted by Kalle_M

So let them go! That's always the main excuse, isn't it? There are enough home-grown folks to take their place.

Why do you think that's always the main excuse? When they go, they take their jobs with them. Hedge fund managers don't relocate to Dubai to breed camels, do they?

I never cease to be amazed by the left's dedication to socialist dogma, regardless of the cost. In a good year, the City of London generates about one third of government income. That's the entire welfare budget. Or the health, education and defence budgets combined. How would we plug a gap like that? Perhaps we could take a cue from the Occupy movement and turn all the empty offices in the City into cannabis farms. That's a growth industry.

Originally Posted by Kalle_M

They're also the folks who pay the least tax percentage-wise because they can make use of all sorts of devious schemes.

In fact, the opposite is the case. HMRC have stated that the top 1% of taxpayers pay 25% of all income tax.

You have to face facts Comrade. The rich, increasingly defined as anybody with a job, are not happy paying 25 times the effective tax rate that Mr average is paying, especially when that tax money is used to keep the leisure classes in scratch cards and Sky TV subscriptions.