Originally Posted by eodmatt

Originally Posted by smartascarrots

Originally Posted by stacker1

That could be because you don't see many company directors on ARRSE doing that...

Or most likely because they don't waste their time on ARRSE but go straight to the seat of power where they know they can get national policy tailored to suit.

Yet again, only one would be regarded as dishonest and immoral by certain ARRSErs. The other would be regarded as sound business sense.

Personally, I would think that if getting rid of drains on the national purse was a good thing then it should extend to all drains on the national purse - but I seem to be in a minority on here in recognising that some of the greatest drains don't come from the left wing or lower classes.

Ah, you mean the Labour Party?

No, I mean the government. I don't think party makes a difference, because they are just scenery. Government goes on.

You admit yourself that if you could find a way to screw the state for doing nothing then you would and I believe that that's commonplace amongst the business sector. They're in it to make money, not provide value: providing value is only ever a means to an end.

Yet, every time Sven puts his hand to the keyboard, he's swamped by people damning him for realising the ideal of every business: to gain without expending.

Originally Posted by smartascarrots

Originally Posted by eodmatt

Originally Posted by smartascarrots

Originally Posted by stacker1

That could be because you don't see many company directors on ARRSE doing that...

Or most likely because they don't waste their time on ARRSE but go straight to the seat of power where they know they can get national policy tailored to suit.

Yet again, only one would be regarded as dishonest and immoral by certain ARRSErs. The other would be regarded as sound business sense.

Personally, I would think that if getting rid of drains on the national purse was a good thing then it should extend to all drains on the national purse - but I seem to be in a minority on here in recognising that some of the greatest drains don't come from the left wing or lower classes.

Ah, you mean the Labour Party?

No, I mean the government. I don't think party makes a difference, because they are just scenery. Government goes on.

You admit yourself that if you could find a way to screw the state for doing nothing then you would and I believe that that's commonplace amongst the business sector. They're in it to make money, not provide value: providing value is only ever a means to an end.

Yet, every time Sven puts his hand to the keyboard, he's swamped by people damning him for realising the ideal of every business: to gain without expending.

Accepting something for nothing is a basic human trait and I think that is well recognised and not just by me. And it certainly is not an outlook which is restricted to the business sector. Is Sven a businessman and has he found a way to get owt for nowt as a business venture?

Not many people get the opportunity to take something for nothing and do that as a way of life. Most people have to work for a living and therefore tend to deprecate those who could, but who chose not to.

And business people tend to invest their own money, time and talents in their business as well as working ferocious hours. I started up with 50 quid of my own money and have had bugger all help from anywhere, let alone government - of any political hue.

And I think that there are some on Arrse who could follow Svens course of action, but do not do so because of pride and self respect and a desire to make their own way.

I would also say that whlst it is possible for a person or a group to fool some of the people some of the time, it really isnt possible to fool all of the people allof the time. Some of the people who post on Arrse are fairly astute and can see through people reasonably quickly, but at the same time are sympathetic to genuine cases of hardhip and illness.

If you feel that they are being unduly harsh in judging Sven then perhaps the reasons for that should be solicited. But to defend him on the basis that "business does what he does" (I dont know of any businesses that do) is simply untrue and illogical.

Im going to be honest and say if someone offered to pay my mortgage and keep me in booze and fags i would snatch thier hand off or suck them to completion as was speculated in a thread form convoy_c0ck

Originally Posted by joey_deacons_lad

Im going to be honest and say if someone offered to pay my mortgage and keep me in booze and fags i would snatch thier hand off or suck them to completion as was speculated in a thread form convoy_c0ck

Sure but thats not the issue here.

You need to provide a mobile phone number if your advert is to be taken seriously.

Originally Posted by eodmatt

If you feel that they are being unduly harsh in judging Sven then perhaps the reasons for that should be solicited. But to defend him on the basis that "business does what he does" (I dont know of any businesses that do) is simply untrue and illogical.

You have me quite wrong and since I've already stated he's in the wrong I can't for the life of me understand why.

My gripe is with the mentality all too often displayed here that taking all you can get and giving nothing back is ok if you can stick a PLC between your individual self and the consequences of your decisions, but not if you go all out for maximum self-benefit and screw the consequences as a private individual the way doleys do.

Businesses exist to provide the greatest possible value to their owners and we should treat them as entities which exist to provide the greatest possible value to their owners. This means recognising that all other considerations are secondary. ARRSE, however, generally tends to treat them as if they were magnificent altruistic organisations who just need to be left to their own devices for milk and honey to flow throughout the whole of society. They're not and they won't, any more than Sven will get off his behind without motivation. Only one of these selfishnesses is seen as a bad thing, though.

But thats the way businesses are treated - and the government taxes them and takes a share, which pays for the likes of Whet, Sven et al.

The difference between most businesses and Sven (etc) is that the businesses work at generating cash, some of which is hived off supposedly for the common good. Whereas Sven (etc) simply absorbs some of the common good.

Any company which does not provide goods and services which are required by others, or which does so at too high a cost or too low a quality will close down because of lack of customers.

I think it would be interesting to subject Sven (etc) to the quality management test - in this case a unique yardstick is needed - is he really disabled and genuinely needing to be supported. If not, then his business model fails and his revenue source should dry up, just like a business.

Fecking hell, he could even sit at home and write scam emails all day long, at least he would be attempting to support himself in some way.

He seems to be living the world's biggest contradiction - telling all and sundry how he is incapable of any work yet standing for election. Just what was he planning on doing if the electorate of Skipton did have a mahoosive collective brainfart and voted him in?

Just shows how much effort he deems needs to be put into politics at LibDem level!

Originally Posted by eodmatt

The difference between most businesses and Sven (etc) is that the businesses work at generating cash, some of which is hived off supposedly for the common good

Let’s just examine that for a moment, shall we. Where exactly does this cash come from? Does it appear magically out of thin air? No, it comes from customers and they get their money from either customers or employers, who get theirs in turn from, etc... Businesses don’t generate cash, at best they recycle it.

Value is a different thing altogether. Some businesses provide value, some don’t but continue to generate profit regardless. Same with any other aspect of human activity.

Ironically, by having money to spend Sven is adding value to our economy through the simple fact of providing a market for every supplier to enter into. The existence of a market is kinda important in a market economy, or so I’ve been led to believe.

Originally Posted by eodmatt

Any company which does not provide goods and services which are required by others, or which does so at too high a cost or too low a quality will close down because of lack of customers.

Where there is an effective choice available to their customers. But, the historical precedent is that businesses will act to restrict consumer choice where they have the power, hence the need for robust and effective regulation.

I’d argue that most of the really shitty deals available to the common bloke have come about because the major players in e.g. markets like electricity or high-street banking have realised that so long as they don’t provide any shittier service than the rest then they can get away with it. Costs can go up, service can go down and quality can go out the window, provided everyone else is doing the same. The costs of setting up in direct competition make alternatives impossible in these cases.

The market only works where the choice to say ‘no thanks’ is a realistic option. Where it isn’t then businesses can crank out any old shite and still remain in business.

Originally Posted by eodmatt

I think it would be interesting to subject Sven (etc) to the quality management test - in this case a unique yardstick is needed - is he really disabled and genuinely needing to be supported. If not, then his business model fails and his revenue source should dry up, just like a business.

He has been subjected to that sort of analysis, that’s why he’s got the benefits package he has. But everyone who pounces on him the moment he touches his keyboard seems to want the process redone again and again until it gets the right result according to their lights.

Smartas,

Are you saying you believe the current system is in fact an effective business model? don't you think you are maybe comparing apples to oranges here re Whet and business in general?