In the German Army, it is possible to join the the rank of Feldwebel, apparantly the equivalent to the British rank of Sergeant. Knowing full well that nobody can be a sergeant after just 2 years of classroom work and basic training, just how do these ranks equate?

With the responsibilty a sergeant holds in the British Army, what is his german equivalent rank?

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Originally Posted by Matthius07

US Army officers are more hands on and down and dirty, and less educated :p

I wonder if graduates of the USMA, West Point NY would care to comment on this observation?

I've spent several years - in fact before I discovered the ARRSE - reading the in-house comic of the USAF-Academy in Colorado Springs. It's important to bear in mind that a majority of US officers *don't* pass through these places, but instead do 90-day OCS courses after civi-uni. It's equally important to remember that for a lot of septic officers, they went to these places because they couldn't afford civi-uni, which in America is private education and costs £15-50k/year.

USAFA, aka the Blue-Zoo, alumni are "ZOOmies", while the other *four* armed services (...coast guard, anyone?...) look down on them as a geeky elite, many of the graduates have hard-core degrees in aeronautic engineering or astronautics, which they study for while being beasted like sandhurtz cadets at 14,000' altitude for four years.
The place took a major morale and espirite-de-corps hit after a senior cadet (allegedly) raped a female during a "SERE" - escape, evasion & resistance to interrogation exercise. This happened during the Clinton era, so you can guess what happened.....

USNA - Annapolis - The oldest of these schools. Zoomies call this place the "Boat School" or "Canoe U"

USMA-Westpoint; - "West Point is a small junior college on the Hudson, commonly known for having over 200 years of tradition unhampered by progress or any sort of competent football team."
aka: Castle Greyskull, Hudson High, or Woo Poo (or Woo Poo U)

The USMC don't even operate one of these colleges - perhaps that's for the better, but it's accepted that the brighter members of their shake&bake course are Annapolis alumini, think of Jack Ryan from the Tom Clancy books.

Seriously, fewer than 15% of US military officers do one of these acadamies. The rest do a surprisingly short course, just after they graduated from "college".

You also have the US civvies with their rank equivalents to the forces:

www.cherrypoint.usmc.mil/MCASCP/stationadj/documents/Military%2520Equivalent.doc+gs+rank+equivalent+cha rt&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=8&gl=uk&client=firefox-a]American ranks and US Civvy equivalents[/url]

Originally Posted by Lepus

They are not however, entitled to a salute from British Forces, despite their "Commissioned" position.

Reference, please.

Originally Posted by putteesinmyhands

Even though US Warrant Officers of CW2 and above receive a commission from the President, they are not regarded by their own forces as "Commissioned Officers."

Incorrect. Your basis for that assumption is a glitch in terminology that we still grapple with today. "Commissioned Warrant Officers" is just too long for steady repetition. There have been many experiments, such as "RLOs", "Branch Officers", and other such to differentiate between O1-O9 and W2-W5. But US Commissioned Warrants hold their authority from the same source as the "RLOs" and "Branch Officers", and have all the same legal authorities and obligations. We are just as commissioned as any Lieutenant, Major or General, in our services or yours.

Originally Posted by putteesinmyhands

Then please explain how US WO1 to CW4 ranks can be achieved with less than 2 years of military service as shown in the table on this page: http://usmilitary.about.com/library/...warbasepay.htm

The reason is simple: a WO1 pilot can be created within a little over a year, if all goes well.

As for CW2s and above, the reason is also simple: they are commissioned, and any commission is in the hands of the President. Some senior commissions must be approved by our Senate, such as General officers, but the President can pretty much hand out lower commissions as he pleases. This gives flexibility to our rank structure in times of war or expansion.

For example, we now have a new field of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles. This is a technical area that didn't exist five years ago, but now we have requirements for officers to fill positions up to CW5 in that field. The President didn't appoint any direct CW5s, but he did appoint persons with appropriate technical and military experience as CW2-CW4, and recently several of the CW4s have met service requirements for promotion to CW5. Using standard promotion schedules, we would have been waiting 20 years to fill those positions.

That's why you see those pay grades listed. Because they are possible, but certainly not the norm.

And as for your precious SNCO Mess...you'll find me in the Officer's Mess and not troughing with the help...

A question from a septic sort to some with more recent experience on my side of the pond.

I recall that back in the Vietnam era they were creating warrant officer in Intel. Some had technical skills such as photo interpretation or languages and others went to basic and went to intel schools and were made warrants for other duties.

I have a friend who was an intel warrant. Not entirely sure of his duties but a couple of times when I lost keys he was able to pick a lock for me in seconds with no damage or scratches.

Is aviation the only direct to WO option or do they still make other technical people warrants.

By the way, the wife was Navy and all the USN warrants seem to be former chiefs with looong service in technical areas such as hull maintenance, electronics, engineering etc. The USCG seems to make some senior chiefs warrants to command smaller boat stations. The USCG station in my town is commanded by a CWO.

Originally Posted by Varangian

And as for your precious SNCO Mess...you'll find me in the Officer's Mess and not troughing with the help...

And me!

Originally Posted by DavidBOC

A question from a septic sort to some with more recent experience on my side of the pond.

I recall that back in the Vietnam era they were creating warrant officer in Intel. Some had technical skills such as photo interpretation or languages and others went to basic and went to intel schools and were made warrants for other duties.

I have a friend who was an intel warrant. Not entirely sure of his duties but a couple of times when I lost keys he was able to pick a lock for me in seconds with no damage or scratches.

Is aviation the only direct to WO option or do they still make other technical people warrants.

I was in a target acquisition battery ( US 2nd Armored Division) in the late 1980's and we had a lot of warrant officers whose job was to operate and repair the radars. They had their own place away from the headquarters battery down in the motor pool. They were a very laid back bunch but you still had to salute them. I knew a female SFC in food service who was studying to become a warrant officer.

Having worked with the US Navy can confirm that the majority of USN CWO are equivalent of our SUY (think LE). They are there to fill deep specialist knowledge fields but it has been decided they need Officers in the role. They tend to come from CPO level and have a fair few years before the mast.

Originally Posted by Varangian

Originally Posted by Lepus

They are not however, entitled to a salute from British Forces, despite their "Commissioned" position.

Reference, please.

Originally Posted by putteesinmyhands

Even though US Warrant Officers of CW2 and above receive a commission from the President, they are not regarded by their own forces as "Commissioned Officers."

Incorrect. Your basis for that assumption is a glitch in terminology that we still grapple with today. "Commissioned Warrant Officers" is just too long for steady repetition. There have been many experiments, such as "RLOs", "Branch Officers", and other such to differentiate between O1-O9 and W2-W5. But US Commissioned Warrants hold their authority from the same source as the "RLOs" and "Branch Officers", and have all the same legal authorities and obligations. We are just as commissioned as any Lieutenant, Major or General, in our services or yours.

Originally Posted by putteesinmyhands

Then please explain how US WO1 to CW4 ranks can be achieved with less than 2 years of military service as shown in the table on this page: http://usmilitary.about.com/library/...warbasepay.htm

The reason is simple: a WO1 pilot can be created within a little over a year, if all goes well.

As for CW2s and above, the reason is also simple: they are commissioned, and any commission is in the hands of the President. Some senior commissions must be approved by our Senate, such as General officers, but the President can pretty much hand out lower commissions as he pleases. This gives flexibility to our rank structure in times of war or expansion.

For example, we now have a new field of Unmanned Aerial Vehicles. This is a technical area that didn't exist five years ago, but now we have requirements for officers to fill positions up to CW5 in that field. The President didn't appoint any direct CW5s, but he did appoint persons with appropriate technical and military experience as CW2-CW4, and recently several of the CW4s have met service requirements for promotion to CW5. Using standard promotion schedules, we would have been waiting 20 years to fill those positions.

That's why you see those pay grades listed. Because they are possible, but certainly not the norm.

And as for your precious SNCO Mess...you'll find me in the Officer's Mess and not troughing with the help...

OK. This has already been done to death on this British Army site, I assume you are genuine, and not the same embarrassing idiot who keeps raising this.

No disrespect to US CWO's, with whom I have worked and have been happy to share a mess with on occasion; none of these fine people expected a salute from British junior personnel.

No disrespect either to the US President of the day, who is of course entitled to commission whoever he or she wishes into the US armed forces.

However, oddly enough it is for the Head of the BRITISH armed forces to say who HER personnel shall salute.

You asked for a reference. How about The Queen's Regulations for the Army. Officers shall be saluted. Warrant Officers shall be addressed in the same way as officers, but are not to be saluted.

Originally Posted by hackle

You asked for a reference. How about The Queen's Regulations for the Army. Officers shall be saluted. Warrant Officers shall be addressed in the same way as officers, but are not to be saluted.

QRs also state that compliments are paid to officers of corresponding rank in friendly foreign armed forces. Corresponding ranks are listed in QRs as those equivalent to NATO OF1 and above - second lieutenant/ lieutenant.

US WOs are junior to NATO OF1 - therefore are not saluted.