Thread: Major Roy Farran, DSO, MC

I don't see it as sordid at all. He was obviously a brave man and he was left in a situation where he had to fight fire with fire.

With all due respect I think that needs to be taken into account.

Thanks again, castlereigh, I will get on to it next week. Sorry not to have replied earlier, I was summoned by higher authority to deal with the Sunday roast.

With regard to GDav`s assertion that it was not "sordid", I was not so much refering to Farran`s actions as the fallout from the trial. It`s all hearsay to me but I gather that the British authorities took much the same view as GDav and initially tried to sweep it under the table. The subsequent outcry from the Jewish homeland lobby (particularly in America where the Stern gang were seen as freedom fighters) put enough pressure on the British to bring the case to trial. When the charge sheets were drawn up it was not so much that a quilty verdict would mean a rap over the knuckles and half a dozen extra orderly officers for those concerned but a conviction for murder and the death penalty. At which point the police/military broke ranks collectively and individually and a lot of finger pointing and "It was him not me, m`lud" went on. Careers were ended. Sordid or not, GDav?

The sad ending was that when Farran was acquitted the Jewish militants, as is their way, decided to take matters into their own hands and sent a letter bomb to Farran`s mother`s address in England. The letter was addressed to "R. Farran". Roy Farran was away but his brother Rex opened it thinking it was for him and went to meet his maker.

Yes I'm aware of the death of the Rev Rex Farran. I merely pointed out that if the man was acquitted he was deemed innocent of all charges, regardless of the circumstances. I'm not trying to sanctify him.

Originally Posted by TangoFowerAlpha

Thanks again, castlereigh, I will get on to it next week. Sorry not to have replied earlier, I was summoned by higher authority to deal with the Sunday roast.

With regard to GDav`s assertion that it was not "sordid", I was not so much refering to Farran`s actions as the fallout from the trial. It`s all hearsay to me but I gather that the British authorities took much the same view as GDav and initially tried to sweep it under the table. The subsequent outcry from the Jewish homeland lobby (particularly in America where the Stern gang were seen as freedom fighters) put enough pressure on the British to bring the case to trial. When the charge sheets were drawn up it was not so much that a quilty verdict would mean a rap over the knuckles and half a dozen extra orderly officers for those concerned but a conviction for murder and the death penalty. At which point the police/military broke ranks collectively and individually and a lot of finger pointing and "It was him not me, m`lud" went on. Careers were ended. Sordid or not, GDav?

The sad ending was that when Farran was acquitted the Jewish militants, as is their way, decided to take matters into their own hands and sent a letter bomb to Farran`s mother`s address in England. The letter was addressed to "R. Farran". Roy Farran was away but his brother Rex opened it thinking it was for him and went to meet his maker.

Glad I could be of help. But I think that people often forget that the Stern Gang brought terror back to the UK with their campaign of Letter bombs against people they deemed to be 'anti-semitic' i.e. those who did not agree with their aims. I also think it is unfair to say that the authorities had a deliberate policy of sweeping things under the carpet, they were in a now in situation in which they were effectively powerless. You had an establishment that was split between pro-zionist factions and those who wanted to protect British interests in the ME. Therefore the actions of Farran and others like him have to be seen in the context of a policy that was unclear and divided. Also many of the people engaged in what was a police action were actually military and so came with 'military' solutions and had no real guidance on how to 'police' the situation. It was therefore a situation that was doomed to produce 'mistakes' on all sides.

Originally Posted by TangoFowerAlpha

I agree. there was the case of the two British sergeants who were tortured and castrated by the Stern Gang. It is easy to see why Major Farran may have taken things too far, given the climate at the time. But I`m no expert on the subject - that`s why I`m after the trial transcript.

I think it was three sergeants, all RAF BTW, who were kidnapped, tortured and hanged. Anecdotally I am informed that the mutilations were post mortem and intended to terrify the survivors not brutalise the subjects but that is not really the issue, is it? More importantly, IMHO, there was another British sergeant who was not kidnapped because he was out - probably up to no good - at the time. He was Cuddles pere and thank God, but for his grace and the poor close recce skills and impatience of the Stern Gang, I would not be here to read this interesting thread.

Try a FOI request from the MoD?

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Originally Posted by TangoFowerAlpha

I agree. there was the case of the two British sergeants who were tortured and castrated by the Stern Gang. It is easy to see why Major Farran may have taken things too far, given the climate at the time. But I`m no expert on the subject - that`s why I`m after the trial transcript.

I think it was three sergeants, all RAF BTW, who were kidnapped, tortured and hanged. Anecdotally I am informed that the mutilations were post mortem and intended to terrify the survivors not brutalise the subjects but that is not really the issue, is it? More importantly, IMHO, there was another British sergeant who was not kidnapped because he was out - probably up to no good - at the time. He was Cuddles pere and thank God, but for his grace and the poor close recce skills and impatience of the Stern Gang, I would not be here to read this interesting thread.

I had always read that the two sergeants, Clifford Martin and Mervyn Paice I think there names were, were Int Corps, attached to Security Intelligence Middle East (the local version of MI5). Maybe a different incident?

Originally Posted by baboon6

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Originally Posted by TangoFowerAlpha

I agree. there was the case of the two British sergeants who were tortured and castrated by the Stern Gang. It is easy to see why Major Farran may have taken things too far, given the climate at the time. But I`m no expert on the subject - that`s why I`m after the trial transcript.

I think it was three sergeants, all RAF BTW, who were kidnapped, tortured and hanged. Anecdotally I am informed that the mutilations were post mortem and intended to terrify the survivors not brutalise the subjects but that is not really the issue, is it? More importantly, IMHO, there was another British sergeant who was not kidnapped because he was out - probably up to no good - at the time. He was Cuddles pere and thank God, but for his grace and the poor close recce skills and impatience of the Stern Gang, I would not be here to read this interesting thread.

I had always read that the two sergeants, Clifford Martin and Mervyn Paice I think there names were, were Int Corps, attached to Security Intelligence Middle East (the local version of MI5). Maybe a different incident?

B6..I am thinking of the kidnap and subsequent death by hanging in an ornage grove? Does this ring true? Maybe I am confusing the two as well...it has been a long time since my father drunkenly unloaded that particular snippet of his "quite interesting" (as my uncle, who was himself in SOE in Yugoslavia described it) war...

I have an original late 1940s copy of Roy Farran's autobiography 'Winged Dagger' - it makes interesting reading. It is still in print as far as I am aware.

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Originally Posted by baboon6

Originally Posted by Cuddles

I think it was three sergeants, all RAF BTW, who were kidnapped, tortured and hanged. Anecdotally I am informed that the mutilations were post mortem and intended to terrify the survivors not brutalise the subjects but that is not really the issue, is it? More importantly, IMHO, there was another British sergeant who was not kidnapped because he was out - probably up to no good - at the time. He was Cuddles pere and thank God, but for his grace and the poor close recce skills and impatience of the Stern Gang, I would not be here to read this interesting thread.

I had always read that the two sergeants, Clifford Martin and Mervyn Paice I think there names were, were Int Corps, attached to Security Intelligence Middle East (the local version of MI5). Maybe a different incident?

B6..I am thinking of the kidnap and subsequent death by hanging in an ornage grove? Does this ring true? Maybe I am confusing the two as well...it has been a long time since my father drunkenly unloaded that particular snippet of his "quite interesting" (as my uncle, who was himself in SOE in Yugoslavia described it) war...

Paice and Martin were found in eucalyptus grove near Nathanya - maybe your Dad was part of the incident later that year when two sergeants were killed in Beersheba an incident which if I recall correctly set off anti-Jewish riots in major cities in the UK (August 1947) ?

Decorated soldier, politician dead at 85

By TODD SAELHOF, CALGARY SUN

The city has lost "a real hero" and "the top decorated soldier in Canada," say friends of Roy Farran.

The retired major and prominent Calgary politician passed away Friday at the age of 85, leaving behind an unforgettable legacy, said fellow war veteran and former alderman Art Smith.

"Everyone held Roy in high respect," said Smith, who served on city council with Farran.

Born in England in 1921, Farran schooled in India before becoming one of the world's most respected and decorated soldiers. He then retired from duty at the age of 31 and moved to Calgary to raise cattle.

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/...15003-sun.html

R I P

Roy Farran...you would hate to have him in your Army during peace and love to have him in your Army during war...RIP.

Originally Posted by TangoFowerAlpha

. The 16 year old helped carry the milk churn filled with explosive in to the basement of the King David. He was caught at the scene. He refused to name names and died under interrogation. Major Farran was in charge of the interrogation.

i love it, first the denigrating name ( only the brits call them by the name of "gang"). than all sort of accusations. naturally, fitting to the prejudged perception. "The 16 year old helped carry the milk churn filled with explosive in to the basement of the King David. He was caught at the scene. " where do you get that? he was wall leaflet distributer. since the brits add the action as "terrorist operation" ( believe it or not ) and threaten any one caught doing it will be shot on spot ( yes ), it helps you and other to go further to portray him as "terrorist". poor alexander were tortured to death, apparently by roy farran himself, cause he refused to name names.

Originally Posted by TangoFowerAlpha

I agree. there was the case of the two British sergeants who were tortured and castrated by the Stern Gang. It is easy to see why Major Farran may have taken things too far, given the climate at the time. But I`m no expert on the subject - that`s why I`m after the trial transcript.

The two British sergeants captured by Irgun not Stern "gang". They had been held as hostages in a vain attempt to dissuade the British from applying the death sentence of five not least innocent persons. Who didn't killed any one and served in the British army during the war. UN Reprot: The condemned, Myer Nakar, Absalom Habib and Jacob Weiss, had fought in the Czech underground during the war. They were convicted of blowing up Acre Prison on May 4 and liberating 200 Arabs and Jews.

I had a recent thread about the issue

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/...c/t=38914.html


Between 4 and 5 on Tuesday morning, July 29, 1947, the Acre prison gallows were operated three times in quick succession. Avshalom Haviv, Yaakov Weiss and Meir Nakar, Irgun soldiers who had participated in the May 4th prison break which set free 41 Irgun and Lehi ( Stern ) members from that same Acre prison, were hanged by Captain Clough. Thirteen hours later, at 6 p.m. In a disused diamond polishing workshop in Netanya, Amihai Paglin, Irgun operations chief, hanged Clifford Martin and Marvin Paice, soldiers in the British army in Mandatory Palestine. They had been held as hostages in a vain attempt to dissuade the British from applying the death sentence.

Originally Posted by mora

Originally Posted by TangoFowerAlpha

. The 16 year old helped carry the milk churn filled with explosive in to the basement of the King David. He was caught at the scene. He refused to name names and died under interrogation. Major Farran was in charge of the interrogation.

i love it, first the denigrating name ( only the brits call them by the name of "gang"). than all sort of accusations. naturally, fitting to the prejudged perception. "The 16 year old helped carry the milk churn filled with explosive in to the basement of the King David. He was caught at the scene. " where do you get that? he was wall leaflet distributer. since the brits add the action as "terrorist operation" ( believe it or not ) and threaten any one caught doing it will be shot on spot ( yes ), it helps you and other to go further to portray him as "terrorist". poor alexander were tortured to death, apparently by roy farran himself, cause he refused to name names.

Do you have credible documentary evidence for your assertions, Mora? It would help to give objective and dispassionate (if possible) references rather than emotional allegations. We've become used to having to deal with that, you see, rather like your Armed Forces, and those of many of the other democratically constituted countries recently.

There is a wonderful full page obituary in today's Telegraph!

Major Roy Farran

Bit of a lad by the sound of it, and they don't make 'em like that anymore....more's the pity!!

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