ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by King_of_the_Burpas

I would like to humbly apologise to the Japanese for the regrettable instant sunshine incidents.

The fact that they took my father in law prisoner in 1940 and treated him and his mates like shit for five years in no way colours my judgment of the poor, downtrodden mass murderers and railway building fanatics.

Yep and now you can buy their cars.

Originally Posted by ex_colonial

Unfortunately at the time, 1945, the Japanese had been killing, terrorising & brutally treating most of the far East starting in 1931 with their incursions into China, their track record for gratuitous brutallity was well known, their disregard for the welfare & well being of their own civilian population was evident in Okinawa. The penchant for fighting to the last man often suicidally doing this as with the Kamikazi pilots, linked with reports coming out of Japan that civilians were to be armed, even if only with a bamboo spear to kill any invader that came ashore meant that the Allied chiefs were not prepared to risk even more lives uneccessarily, including that of Japanese civilians! Linked with the fact that Japan still has not expressed any regrets for its actions in that time is the reason that you will find little or no sympathy on this forum!
"They that sow the wind shall reap the whirlwind"

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that it was the logical thing to do, but like I said, when you start to actually celebrate the event, rather than merely just recognising the fact that it was a necessity, it gets rather iffy

Originally Posted by King_of_the_Burpas

I would like to humbly apologise to the Japanese for the regrettable instant sunshine incidents.

The fact that they took my father in law prisoner in 1940 and treated him and his mates like shit for five years in no way colours my judgment of the poor, downtrodden mass murderers and railway building fanatics.

1940? thought the Jpanese didnt attack the US or UK until 41.

My Grandfather was torpedoed by the Japs in '43, he was a merchantman. He died in the early 70's which, for him, was probably a result, because today he would have been imprisoned if he gave vent to even a smidgin of how much he hated the bastards.

Since my late father was to be in the first wave in the main islands invasion, I am admittedly biased but after reading this, I have no qualms whatsoever with the use of the nukes:

Invasion of Japan

Had a Neighbor who was a Marine Raider with "Red Mike" Edson
Guadalcanal, New Georgia, Saipan, Okinawa finally with the 6th MARDIV and ended up in China until 1946?

He had a Samurai sword souvenier that was a old family sword(officer he took it from was a col) and in the 1970's the Japanese Embassy contacted him and said the familiy wanted it back. He told them he would break it into dozens of pieces first, he never did give it to them. He said his fellow Gyrenes cheered so much on hearing about Hiroshima that he for sure wet himself.
when interviewed for Jap tv he was asked if he hated them. He said not those who were children in 41-45 but yes he still wished all those who were adults then burned.

You just have to read about what happened to the CivPop in Okinawa to know that an invasion of the mainland would have resulted in hundreds and thousands, if not millions of dead. The film of civilians jumping off cliffs to avaoid the Americans is pretty harrowing. Nuking two cities was really a small price to pay.

At some battles, such as at Battle of Iwo Jima, there had been no civilians involved, but Okinawa had a large indigenous civilian population and, according to various estimates, somewhere between one tenth and one third of them died during the battle. Okinawan civilian losses in the campaign were estimated to be between 42,000 and 150,000 dead (more than 100,000 according to Okinawa Prefecture). The U.S. Army figures for the campaign showed a total figure of 142,058 civilian casualties, including those who were pressed into service by the Japanese Imperial Army.

During the 1945 battle, the Japanese Army showed indifference to Okinawa's defense and safety, and the Japanese soldiers used civilians as human shields against the Americans. Japanese military confiscated food from the Okinawans and executed those who hid it, leading to a mass starvation among the population, and forced civilians out of their shelters. Japanese soldiers also killed about 1,000 Okinawans who spoke in a different local dialect in order to suppress spying. The museum writes that "some were blown apart by shells, some finding themselves in a hopeless situation were driven to suicide, some died of starvation, some succumbed to malaria, while others fell victim to the retreating Japanese troops."

Mass suicides

With the impending victory of American troops, civilians often committed mass suicide, urged on by the Japanese soldiers who told locals that victorious American soldiers would go on a rampage of killing and raping. Ryukyu Shimpo, one of the two major Okinawan newspapers, wrote in 2007: "There are many Okinawans who have testified that the Japanese Army directed them to commit suicide. There are also people who have testified that they were handed grenades by Japanese soldiers" to blow themselves up. Some of the civilians, having been induced by Japanese propaganda to believe that U.S. soldiers were barbarians who committed horrible atrocities, killed their families and themselves to avoid capture. Some of them threw themselves and their family members from the cliffs where the Peace Museum now resides.
However, despite being told by the Japanese military that they would suffer rape, torture and murder at the hands of the Americans, Okinawans "were often surprised at the comparatively humane treatment they received from the American enemy."

According to Islands of Discontent: Okinawan Responses to Japanese and American Power by Mark Selden, the Americans "did not pursue a policy of torture, rape, and murder of civilians as Japanese military officials had warned." Military Intelligence combat translator Teruto Tsubota—a U.S. Marine born in Hawaii—convinced hundreds of civilians not to kill themselves and thus saved their lives.

Originally Posted by JoeCivvie

You just have to read about what happened to the CivPop in Okinawa to know that an invasion of the mainland would have resulted in hundreds and thousands, if not millions of dead. The film of civilians jumping off cliffs to avaoid the Americans is pretty harrowing. Nuking two cities was really a small price to pay.

That was Saipan but your point is well taken.