ARmy Rumour SErvice

At that period of the war the positive effect on morale of such a raid was absolutely enormous, especially from the point of view of those who were being bombed almost nightly. Clearly the Germans gave enormous priority to repairing the damage and this can only have been at the expense of other projects. The raids, on the whole, achieved their aim and they gave hope to our population as well as showing the German people that we could strike into the heart of Germany and with great precision. To say they achieved little because the repairs were effected in 6 months is tripe, for 6 months Germany was fighting with one arm in a sling and was having to ration ball bearings. How many lives were saved because the Germans weren't 100% effective?

We should pay more attention the extraordinary courage and skill of the men who flew these raids and not look to downplay their efforts and achievements in purely economic or productive terms.

I've always thought that the knock on effect was that the Germans had to have a major rethink about strategic bottle necks, which then HAD to be defended against a possible attack, this meant diverting men and materials to places far removed from the 'real' war, every dam was a potential target, fighting men had to be used in case of attack. The heavy water plant in Norway, all the assorted areas attacked by commandoes, etc. The Germans were as short, if not shorter, than the British as regards man power. All the stomach, and ENT battalions the Germans used to man the west wall and low threat areas weren't because they were equal opportunity employers.

88's were used extensively by the Germans in the anti - tank role, to devastating effect.

Originally Posted by Wordsmith

Barnes Wallis always thought one of the biggest mistakes of Chastise was not to make follow up raids on the dams to retard repair. One way this could have been done was with a couple of squadrons of mosquito's bombing from 3,000 feet on nights with a new moon - this was the height above the worst of the light flak, but below the height that heavier anti-aircraft guns could track fast moving targets. Even one or two 1,000 lb bombs into the scaffolding would have caused an appreciable delay.

As it was, the Germans only just got the dams repaired in time for them to fill to full capacity over the winter - had they been at reduced capacity, that would have impacted on German steel production in 1944 - and hence on German armament production.

This isn't hindsight either - Wallis was urging the bombing at the time...

Wordsmith

If they were going to use Mossies, why not fly them in on the next full moon with Highballs instead of Upkeeps, same mission, smaller bomb? The damage was done: this would be about, as you say, retarding repair.

They surely would never expect the same mission a month on, then when Mossies fly over the coast, "They will not be carrying Upkeeps to bomb the Ruhr dams."

Originally Posted by AlienFTM

If they were going to use Mossies, why not fly them in on the next full moon with Highballs instead of Upkeeps, same mission, smaller bomb? The damage was done: this would be about, as you say, retarding repair.
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Lowered water levels would provide less hydraulic damping and directional detonation impact of the bomb so the result would most likely have been negligible to the structure but would have made a big splash . Now a couple of 4,000lb HC's might have made their eyes water.

Originally Posted by SUU23

Lowered water levels would provide less hydraulic damping and directional detonation impact of the bomb so the result would most likely have been negligible to the structure but would have made a big splash . Now a couple of 4,000lb HC's might have made their eyes water.

As best I recall, Barnes Wallis was keen to impede repairs to the dams - he was not trying to further damage the structure. I had originally suggested Mosquitoes because they were fast enough to be relatively immune from the German night fighters of the time, while packing enough of a bomb load to destroy scaffolding, etc.

I suspect Wallis understood the economic and production consequences of the raid far better than Bomber Command.

Wordsmith

I believe that Highball was still 'Secret' and primarily intended as anti shipping weapon, Tirpitz being the juiciest potential target. A follow up raid by Mosquito and Highball would have let the cat out of bag as to Mosquito capability. I am not denying the impact of Mossie and 4k lb Cookies

not sure what a german bouncing bomb could have done to blighty as I am blissfully unaware of any major hydro electric projects they might hit or industries so reliant on water power. they probably just rebuilt it and made it better because they were like that. 9playing skittles with battersea power station towers might have been fun)

mind you it didnt allways go so well, the army asked for a t34 clone and ended up with the panther

also regards guns - the army wanted more to use for defense purposes so they could consolidate the eastern front but grofaz liked tanks which cost much more and used the steel needed for a dozen guns. guderian asked for more panzer 4's as they were cheap fast and reliable with skoda turning out thousands of them instead they got tigers and projects like the ferdinand which just wasted time and money and ended up becoming SPs