ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by Brotherton Lad

A very fair point and one made quite forcibly to me by a Soviet major during a detention in East Germany. I thought it politic at the time not to mention that we were also having a bit of bother with the Japanese.

Russians weren't though.

Some bloke called Zukhov has given them a right seeing in 1939.
Top bloke old Georgei.

Originally Posted by Domovoy

1. Why would official documents be designed to cover asses? In fear of Western propaganda stigma?

2. If you do not use official statistics, then what do you use to make your claims, -- speculations?

Soviet and Russians claims that Katyn was a German atrocity until finally forced to admit culpability in 1992 or 93.

Raoul Wallenberg

just 2 examples of Soviet and Russian Lying to cover your asses for crimes done

Originally Posted by Goldbricker

Katyn. .

Yet another cliché...

1. That Soviets were responsible for Katyn was a claim made by Dr.Goebbels.
2. POLISH Red Cross investigated the mass graves and came to a conclusion that it was done by Germans. Among the evidence pointing to that were: German manufactured cords on victims' hands; German bullets used; the trajectory of the bullets that were consistent with German way of execution, but not with that of NKVD; and a great number of personal artefacts and signed garments (it was against NKVD regulations to allow ANY personal items on the executed!). Btw, some people identified by their personal items were later found live and well in Poland...
3. The conclusions of Polish Red Cross were excepted at Nurnberg. The revision to Dr.Goebbels version of events started in mid 80-s in preparation for the dismemberment of the USSR.

Of course, the findings and the conclusions of the POLISH Red Cross who were first to examine Katyn we should disregard because Dr.Goebbels said it were Soviets who did it in Katyn, and the leadership that destroyed the Soviet Union at behest of the US appologised.
Then why did the same Russian leadership refuse to pay Poland compensation for Katyn and demanded documented proof, the proof the Polish Institute of National Rememberance said they LOST!!!!

If Polish latest claims were true, Poland’s Institute of National Remembrance would not have "lost" the related documents just at the time they were required to produce them in order to swindle Russian Federation for compensation.

Incidentally, I've never heard Poles or any other "civilised nation" cry out in indignation at "Polish officers" torturing to death some 80 000 Soviet POW in concentration camps in 1920-s; or using army and death squads against Galitchian peasants during famine of 1930-s.

Goldbricker

Can you kindly answer my previous questions to you?

Originally Posted by Wordsmith

Lest we underestimate the savagery of the fighting on the Eastern front, there is a sobering story in the English version of Der Spiegel.

Germany Tracing Its War Dead from World War II - SPIEGEL ONLINE


The war in the West was fought largely according to the Geneva convention and with a lower casualty rate than the East. But 40,000 reburials a year, many unmarked and after all this time - makes you think about the sheer carnage of what went on on the Eastern Front. Add in the Russian dead and the civilians the Nazis (and to a lesser extent the Russians) butchered and the scale gets still greater.

Wordsmith

In 1979, I heard Chris Donnelly speaking to the trainees at A Tk Div Netheravon. Took me aback with "In the last 6 weeks of WW2, the Soviet Army lost more men than did Great Britain and America combined, in the whole six years of the war".

It defies comprehension. But I'm f#cking glad I wasn't there to see it.

Originally Posted by Domovoy

Yet another cliché...

1. That Soviets were responsible for Katyn was a claim made by Dr.Goebbels.
2. POLISH Red Cross investigated the mass graves and came to a conclusion that it was done by Germans. Among the evidence pointing to that were: German manufactured cords on victims' hands; German bullets used; the trajectory of the bullets that were consistent with German way of execution, but not with that of NKVD; and a great number of personal artefacts and signed garments (it was against NKVD regulations to allow ANY personal items on the executed!). Btw, some people identified by their personal items were later found live and well in Poland...
3. The conclusions of Polish Red Cross were excepted at Nurnberg. The revision to Dr.Goebbels version of events started in mid 80-s in preparation for the dismemberment of the USSR.

Of course, the findings and the conclusions of the POLISH Red Cross who were first to examine Katyn we should disregard because Dr.Goebbels said it were Soviets who did it in Katyn, and the leadership that destroyed the Soviet Union at behest of the US appologised.
Then why did the same Russian leadership refuse to pay Poland compensation for Katyn and demanded documented proof, the proof the Polish Institute of National Rememberance said they LOST!!!!

If Polish latest claims were true, Poland’s Institute of National Remembrance would not have "lost" the related documents just at the time they were required to produce them in order to swindle Russian Federation for compensation.

Incidentally, I've never heard Poles or any other "civilised nation" cry out in indignation at "Polish officers" torturing to death some 80 000 Soviet POW in concentration camps in 1920-s; or using army and death squads against Galitchian peasants during famine of 1930-s.

The Russian Leadership admitted and apologized for Katyn and here you are still clalming it was the Germans.


MOSCOW—Russia's parliament accepted Soviet dictator Josef Stalin's responsibility for the 1940 Katyn Forest massacre of 22,000 Polish prisoners—a declaration that Poland's leaders welcomed, cautiously, as a step toward justice for an atrocity that still poisons the two countries' relations.

After a two-hour debate heated by Communist objections, parliament acknowledged Friday that archives first unveiled in the early 1990s "show that the Katyn crime was carried out on the direct orders of Stalin and other Soviet leaders."

Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and former President Boris Yeltsin had conceded Stalin's culpability


Russia Says Stalin Ordered Massacre - WSJ.com

STATEMENT. ON INVESTIGATION OF THE

BBC NEWS | Europe | Russia to release massacre files

BBC News - Russian parliament condemns Stalin for Katyn massacre

For you in this day and age to still try and claim the soviets werent responsible for Katyn shows you to be a Liar and cad with no credibility, scruples or honor.

Originally Posted by Goldbricker

The Russian Leadership admitted and apologized for Katyn and here you are still clalming it was the Germans.


.

"Russian Leadership" sold the country down the river. It did what Hitler could not achieve: it destroyed the Soviet Union.

Yet, despite the "apologies", when it came to money, the very same "leadership" asked Poland to produce a proof. And Poland "lost" it.

Once more:
1. That Soviets were responsible for Katyn was a claim made by Dr.Goebbels.
2. POLISH Red Cross investigated the mass graves and came to a conclusion that it was done by Germans. Among the evidence pointing to that were: German manufactured cords on victims' hands; German bullets used; the trajectory of the bullets that were consistent with German way of execution, but not with that of NKVD; and a great number of personal artefacts and signed garments (it was against NKVD regulations to allow ANY personal items on the executed!). Btw, some people identified by their personal items were later found live and well in Poland...
3. The conclusions of Polish Red Cross were excepted at Nurnberg. The revision to Dr.Goebbels version of events started in mid 80-s in preparation for the dismemberment of the USSR.

PS
You don't seem to be similarly "outraged" at Poles torturing to death 80000 Soviet POW and Galitchian (Ukrainian) and Belorussian peasants in concentration camps as well as Poles using army and death squads against starving peasants during the famine of 1930-s...

what i read about the massacre is that they used german .25 pistols
so that they could pin it on adolf
the bloke that done most of them ended up as an alcholic and eat the barrel
himself in 55