ARmy Rumour SErvice

**Themanwho** · 05-04-2012, 09:55

I've just read an account of 51 RTR's repulse of Operation Ochsenkopf around El Arrousa in '43. Equipped with Churchill Mark III infantry tanks, A Sqn basically shot the crap out of a German advance, taking out 8 x PAK, 2 x Panzer III and 25 x wheeled vehicles for the cost of 3 Churchills destroyed and 2 disabled. Tpr J Mitton, driver of "Adventurer" in 1 Tp mentions both a Thompson and a Bren being used by his Troop Commander Capt Hollands DSO DCM, whilst firing from the commanders hatch at an 88mm crew. Both fired one round and then stopped, after which Hollands resorted to throwing things at them, first the Tommy gun, then (with more success) Mills bombs. Later, the Bren gun was run over by another Churchill from the Troop coming up to assist. Bloody Council Cavalry.

From Mitton's account, both Thompson and Bren were stowed inside the hull.

**Nato Standard123** · 05-04-2012, 09:59

Originally Posted by Themanwho

I've just read an acount of 51 RTR's repulse of Operation Ochsenkopf around El Arrousa in '43. Equipped with Churchill Mark III infantry tanks, A Sqn basically shot the crap out of a German advance, taking out 8 x PAK, 2 x Panzer III and 25 x wheeled vehicles for the cost of 3 Churchills destroyed and 2 disabled. Tpr J Mitton, driver of "Adventurer" in 1 Tp mentions both a Thompson and a Bren being used by his Troop Commander Capt Hollands DSO DCM, whilst firing from the commanders hatch at an 88mm crew. Both fired one round and then stopped, after which Hollands resorted to throwing things at them, first the Tommy gun, then (with more success) Mills bombs. Later, the Bren gun was run over by another Churchill from the Troop coming up to assist. Bloody Council Cavalry.

From Mitton's account, both Thompson and Bren were stowed inside the hull.

There's a lot to be said for 'Normal daily cleaning'...

**Themanwho** · 05-04-2012, 10:22

Funnily enough, the BESA in the same tank seemed to be working fine. As it was mounted to the tank and was the responsibility of the front gunner, it was probably better maintained than gash weapons strapped to the side of the crew compartment. Of course, the Shirley Bassey method of weapon maintenance wasn't invented yet...

**brownhat** · 05-04-2012, 10:23

We had a troop leader in Aden who used to stow a shotgun in his ferret on Dhala runs.

**baboon6** · 05-04-2012, 10:26

Originally Posted by brownhat

We had a troop leader in Aden who used to stow a shotgun in his ferret on Dhala runs.

Side-by-side or over-and-under?

**brownhat** · 05-04-2012, 10:35

Side by side.

**bokkatankie** · 05-04-2012, 10:46

Originally Posted by brownhat

Side by side.

Sawn Off?

**Nato Standard123** · 05-04-2012, 13:00

Originally Posted by Themanwho

Funnily enough, the BESA in the same tank seemed to be working fine. As it was mounted to the tank and was the responsibility of the front gunner, it was probably better maintained than gash weapons strapped to the side of the crew compartment. Of course, the Shirley Bassey method of weapon maintenance wasn't invented yet...

.....I feel that I should know that method but you'll have to enlighten me please?......not too clued up on her songs, does it involve puting it in an old bag?

**Themanwho** · 05-04-2012, 13:32

On the nose NATO Std, I was referring to the somewhat politically incorrect term for a black bin liner. It foxed me too the first time I heard it on my first exercise in BAOR umpty twelve years ago. The CQMS enlightened me in the usual fashion!

**Nato Standard123** · 05-04-2012, 13:46

Originally Posted by Themanwho

On the nose NATO Std, I was referring to the somewhat politically incorrect term for a black bin liner. It foxed me too the first time I heard it on my first exercise in BAOR umpty twelve years ago. The CQMS enlightened me in the usual fashion!

Ah ha, being Inf, I only initially saw our MT wallahs do that..and even they were abused for it. Eventually it caught on with a few more of us and we'd 'bag up' once we'd cleaned our weapons after Endex if we still had a few hours of travelling before we RTB'd.

Still had to give it a proper going over again though before it went back to the Armoury.