Originally Posted by Roger_The_Cat

The foreign nationals thing happened on both sides.

There were the 30 or so ne'er do wells of the British Frei Korps and wasn't that Fallsshirmjager Colonel that parachuted into Norfolk to kill Churchill posing as leader of a group of Poles half German and half American?

I think you will find that was fiction :- The Eagle Has Landed (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There were som odd cases. One Russian German immigrant to Canada found life in the depression too unpleasent
and emegrated to Germany with his teenaged sons. These bioys had been raised as Canadians and had Canadian citizenship -
until they fought in the Wehrmacht.
Panzer Gunner: From My Native Canada to the German Ostfront and Back. In Action with 25th Panzer Regiment, 7th Panzer Division 1944-45: Amazon.co.uk: Bruno Friesen: 9781906033118: Books

Originally Posted by Roger_The_Cat

The foreign nationals thing happened on both sides.

There were the 30 or so ne'er do wells of the British Frei Korps and wasn't that Fallsshirmjager Colonel that parachuted into Norfolk to kill Churchill posing as leader of a group of Poles half German and half American?

AFAIK, the 30 British Nasties spent the war mainly sh@gging blonde Fräuleins. The few who were more seriously involved, like Lord Haw Haw, ended up with an eight o´clock appointment with Mr. Pierrepoint.

Originally Posted by sunnoficarus

Probably more than a little truth in your jest. Harris seemed to be of the opinion all to often that testicular fortitude could in some way make up for grievous tactical and technical deficiencies. I caught the tail end of a documentary many moons ago on LMF and the RAF. It would appear that the gist of it was that the threat of being LMF'd made many aircrew just put up and endure rather than raise valid issues.

That's an avenue for a whole new thread: I sometimes wonder if the WW1 generation would have recognised as valid, the same range of issues that make up our post-Viet Nam frame of reference. There is a good deal of reason to lean towards a view that says a 'robust' attitude to fear, and the handling of it by the individual - provided, I guess, that the attitude is shared by one's peers in the firing line, and therefore tempered by deep understanding, and not just one that is imposed by red-tabbed REMFs - is a significant factor in minimising psychological casualty rates.

Even so, I don't think the RAF's WW2 LMF stamping thing fits the bill, because it lacked anything remotely resembling empathy, and was deffo imposed by the Ivory Tower Club in the RAF bit of the War Office.

Originally Posted by Stonker

That's an avenue for a whole new thread: I sometimes wonder if the WW1 generation would have recognised the as valid, the same range of issues that make up our post-Viet Nam frame of reference. There is a good deal of reason to lean towards a view that says a 'robust' attitude to fear, and the handling of it by the individual - provided, I guess, that the attitude is shared by one's peers in the firing line, and therefore tempered by deep understanding, and not just one that is imposed by red-tabbed REMFs - is a significant factor in minimising psychological casualty rates.

Even so, I don't think the RAF's WW2 LMF stamping thing fits the bill, because it lacked anything remotely resembling empathy, and was deffo imposed by the Ivory Tower Club in the RAF bit of the War Office.

Also known as the Air Ministry!

I think it's important to note though that only a very small percentage of aircrew were ever charged with LMF- 0.4% is a number I have seen. Some (many?) men were given second chances by their COs. Others (from what I understand mainly those charge with offences other than LMF ) were sent to one of the "Aircrew Refresher Centres" (a kind of disciplinary facility) for a few weeks and later returned to operations. Still others were sent to the RAF's psychiatric hospital at Matlock and some of these men also returned to operational flying. So while the system certainly lacked empathy it wasn't always so cut and dried.

The cream of the crop: Canadian aircrew, 1939-1945 - Allan Douglas English - Google Books

Originally Posted by Walther

[SNIP]To make it short: If the bleeders wanted to have their houses left intact, they shouldn´t have voted for the Austrian corporal back in 1933 and they shouldn´t have started the war (AND the bombing campaigns). [/SNIP]

Genau.

Englander, 56 jahren alt, ehemalige Charlottenburger (um die ecke Schmidt-Knobelsdorf-Straße/Wilhelmstrasse, Spandau; nachbar und gelegentlicher Gastgeber [?] von Herr Hess), zwischen 1981 und 83
===========
with thanks to Google translate.

Originally Posted by ex_colonial

I think you will find that was fiction :- The Eagle Has Landed (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cracking film though

Originally Posted by Walther

Another thing:
Is the OP aware that about 10.000 Germans and Austrians served in HM armed forces and intelligence services during WW2? There were quite a few of these "King´s Most Loyal Enemy Aliens" among the bomber crews as well.

. . . never mind them: what about the ones in Buck House - House of Saxe-coburg Gotha, sorry, Hanover . . . oops Windsor . . . The House of Hanover (1714 - 1901) , The House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha later Windsor (1901 - )

Originally Posted by Walther

AFAIK, the 30 British Nasties spent the war mainly sh@gging blonde Fräuleins. The few who were more seriously involved, like Lord Haw Haw, ended up with an eight o´clock appointment with Mr. Pierrepoint.

Joyce was actually born in Brooklyn NY to 2 US Citizens. a Lot of handwringing prior to his trial about how to get around that he was a US Citizen by birth.

Originally Posted by ex_colonial

I think you will find that was fiction :- The Eagle Has Landed (film) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

......Feck Off! Next you'll be telling me that an Allied Football team containing Rambo, Michael Caine, Bobby Moore, Pele and a few other stars never, ever, not even once, beat a team from the Whermacht and then escaped in the crowd.

Don't even go there about The Guns of Navarone. I know that film is a true story cos they even made a pleasant song about it

Guns of Navarone - Skatalites - YouTube





Thick Cnut......