Thread: A "what if...?" Going 'Sri Lankan' in Ulster

Originally Posted by Bukit_Basha

Originally Posted by tropper66

Originally Posted by Vonshot

Originally Posted by tropper66

Originally Posted by Vonshot

Originally Posted by tropper66

There was a rumour going around that some of PIRA where trained by the yanks

As per the comment above

In 1970 there were rumours going around 8 Brigade ops room that a number of likley lads where being trained by the South's inteligence unit in county Donegal, shortly after this PIRA raised its ugly head, It was said the South did not want OIRA, A marxist mob , to be involved in the North. You must remember that OIRA had been purged in the South in the 1920s by De-Valera

This is becoming tedious, hearsay for god’s sake, do you believe every rumour you hear? There were a few recently about Sadam, WMD and Al Quieda for example....turned out to be bullsh1t but never let that get in teh way of a good yarn at the bar

Regarding your post about NORAID and funding? this biggest contributor to PIRA's coffers was the NI housing executive and tax exemptions certificates, throw in some red diesel, growth hormones and videos and that was the real bulk of funding. NORAID was a political flag of legitimacy to fly "look how much the Yanks support us" in fact PIRA could get along quite comfortably without any US tin rattling

Seriously Trooper 66, there are some great sources to get an accurate picture of reality and not rumour, prejudiced assumptions or hearsay. Peter Taylors Provo's, Loyalists and Brits and especially Martin Dillion for a start, The Enemy within and the Dirty war are an excellent start

At the time I was sleeping on the floor of the brigade majors office a couple of nights a week as duty aircrew.not reading it out of a book

tropper66, Vonshot wasn't there, he's only read books about it, so don't be too hard on him when speaks out of his arse. :WINK:

If thats an attempt at a bite its not working :D pissing contests over the internet are for the NAFFI

I remember reading that somebody in the Irish government asked if Irish forces could take London Derry to protect the Catholics.
Irish general replied they could but the Irish army would cease to exist within
48hrs

Originally Posted by Vonshot

If we take the same logic the same can be said of HMG's support for Loyalists? to be frank I think that assumption is as groundless as the one regarding the South and PIRA. I do think however certain actors will have spun or directed events or situations for other ends, SIS and Kincora for example.

I cant agree with the statement "support to terrorism" a highly contentious statement. Is the UK judiciary supporting terrorism by not handing out stiffer sentences to animal rights activists or Luton Muslims by not convicting them when they stage inflamatory demo's? Its always easier if we are the judges ourselves

You are just throwing hands full of stones at the pond. I was there and close to the process more than once and the excuses for refusing extradition were straight out of the playground along the lines of wrong font and paper size. This was a concerted campaign by the South to undermine the UK authorities to meet their own political ends (power sharing) using the suspects as mere pawns.

Your comments just do not hold water.

Originally Posted by old_fat_and_hairy

Originally Posted by blindfire

Originally Posted by old_fat_and_hairy

It would have been a very sad day for Britain as a whole. Whilst not supporting, or even condoning the IRA, there was, as previously said, a growing swell of concern for the Catholic minority in the North, both over the erosion of their civil rights and the discrimination played against them in housing, employment and education. This concern was reflected in parts of mainland Britain too, notably in Scotland and the north-west areas of England.
A military adventure on the scale mentioned would have drawn the Repuclic of Ireland into the arena, and whils there is no doubt that eventually British forces may have won the confrontation, it would have been at a huge cost. The Irish armed forces may have been smaller than ours, but were vastly experienced, having fought in the Congo and other places as UN troops.
Putting aside any political condemnation by USA and others, there was a very real danger that the Unites States could have become involved militarily, and that would have been a disaster. And not just from a military standpoint. Politically, the fall-out would have been huge. It would have meant the end of our partnership with America, opened up enormous gaps in NATO and allowed the Soviets ample opportunity to exploit this disharmony to their great advantage.

what fking planet are you on?

Mine is called Earth, and considering this is a 'what if' thread, I make a fair assumption. Do try to remember that the Irish voice in American politics is probably even stronger than the Jewish one, and Nixon had inherited a strong baseline of votes from the Kennedy days.
Had the British decided -for whatever reason - to invade Ireland then the political ramifications would heve been huge. The Americans have not always supported us in military adventures. Suez springs to mind. And, since every septic who has ever seen 'Going my way' or listened to 'The mountains of Mourne' claims Irish descent, it would have been a damnably politically unpopular move not to respond in some way.

Im sorry ofah...but this is a joke....so the yankees would have invaded GB and Ireland

fk me...what about all the US bases in GB in the 70s?? would we then bomb them and in Germany then go to war with the yanks..dear god.

I know this is a "what if" but quite frankly this is ridiculous

Originally Posted by tropper66

Originally Posted by Vonshot

Originally Posted by tropper66

There was a rumour going around that some of PIRA where trained by the yanks

As per the comment above

In 1970 there were rumours going around 8 Brigade ops room that a number of likley lads where being trained by the South's inteligence unit in county Donegal, shortly after this PIRA raised its ugly head, It was said the South did not want OIRA, A marxist mob , to be involved in the North. You must remember that OIRA had been purged in the South in the 1920s by De-Valera

Forty years before the OIRA were formed eh?

Thank feck Trotsky and Tropper weren't in the driving seat at the time; otherwise Britain would have had four Irish provinces to pacify instead of one....

Originally Posted by HarryPalmer

Originally Posted by tropper66

Originally Posted by Vonshot

Originally Posted by tropper66

There was a rumour going around that some of PIRA where trained by the yanks

As per the comment above

In 1970 there were rumours going around 8 Brigade ops room that a number of likley lads where being trained by the South's inteligence unit in county Donegal, shortly after this PIRA raised its ugly head, It was said the South did not want OIRA, A marxist mob , to be involved in the North. You must remember that OIRA had been purged in the South in the 1920s by De-Valera

Forty years before the OIRA were formed eh?

THE OFFICAL IRISH REPUBLICAN ARMY was founded in 1919 as part of Sinn Fein and was commanded by Michael Collins, PIRA was formed in 1969, The Original IRA is just a disgrunled bunch of PIRA who are p***** of by their leaders all getting on the gravy train, don't they teach history anymore

The Official and the Provisional IRA were formed after a split in 1969.

The Old IRA existed between 1919 and 1923.

Dev didn't come to power until 1932 - but it is true that (after a brief honeymoon period) he cracked down hard on the then IRA, interning the lot in the 1940s and shooting a few as a warning.

The Continuity and the Real IRA are pissed-off former Provos.

Originally Posted by blindfire

Originally Posted by old_fat_and_hairy

Originally Posted by blindfire

Originally Posted by old_fat_and_hairy

It would have been a very sad day for Britain as a whole. Whilst not supporting, or even condoning the IRA, there was, as previously said, a growing swell of concern for the Catholic minority in the North, both over the erosion of their civil rights and the discrimination played against them in housing, employment and education. This concern was reflected in parts of mainland Britain too, notably in Scotland and the north-west areas of England.
A military adventure on the scale mentioned would have drawn the Repuclic of Ireland into the arena, and whils there is no doubt that eventually British forces may have won the confrontation, it would have been at a huge cost. The Irish armed forces may have been smaller than ours, but were vastly experienced, having fought in the Congo and other places as UN troops.
Putting aside any political condemnation by USA and others, there was a very real danger that the Unites States could have become involved militarily, and that would have been a disaster. And not just from a military standpoint. Politically, the fall-out would have been huge. It would have meant the end of our partnership with America, opened up enormous gaps in NATO and allowed the Soviets ample opportunity to exploit this disharmony to their great advantage.

what fking planet are you on?

Mine is called Earth, and considering this is a 'what if' thread, I make a fair assumption. Do try to remember that the Irish voice in American politics is probably even stronger than the Jewish one, and Nixon had inherited a strong baseline of votes from the Kennedy days.
Had the British decided -for whatever reason - to invade Ireland then the political ramifications would heve been huge. The Americans have not always supported us in military adventures. Suez springs to mind. And, since every septic who has ever seen 'Going my way' or listened to 'The mountains of Mourne' claims Irish descent, it would have been a damnably politically unpopular move not to respond in some way.

Im sorry ofah...but this is a joke....so the yankees would have invaded GB and Ireland

fk me...what about all the US bases in GB in the 70s?? would we then bomb them and in Germany then go to war with the yanks..dear god.

I know this is a "what if" but quite frankly this is ridiculous

I appreciate you are RAF and reading is done by moving the finger along the line whilst mouthing the words out loud, but ask a grown-up to read my contribution and try to get him to see where I said the USof A would invade? I did say the may get involved militarily, but that does not in any way suggest an invasion. Any more than the British becoming involved, militarily, in any of the clandestine or ancillary support we have given to "opressed" countries in the past.
Can you not think of any occasion when we have been on differing sides of the fence, both politically and militarily, from any of our allies in the past? It did not mean invasion, war or anything drastic, yet it did involve both overt and covert support for the opposition.
As has previously been said, Noraid received most of their contributions from the police departments of New York, Chicago and Boston police forces. There was 'intelligence' at around the time of internment in '71 that volunteers had been offered from these august bodies, to come and assist the 'Oirish Freedom Fighters'. Consider that most of those in those departments at that time were ex vets, and had a wealth of experience, and would not have been able to obtain leave of absence without some form of official head nodding, then that could have been the beginning.

As I said at the beginning, this is a "what if" thread and none of it came to pass, but the possibilitiies were there.

In 1969/70 the United States Navy had a base in Waterside in Londonderry

Originally Posted by tropper66

In 1969/70 the United States Navy had a base in Waterside in Londonderry

I vaguely recall that, but didn't take too much notice. My original point had nothing to do with USA invading north, more to do with supporting the Republic, in the event of Britain deciding to go south. We knew it would never happen, apart from anything else, it would widen the conflict beyond all reason.

I was in Newry in '71 for internment. Not a good time.

Originally Posted by old_fat_and_hairy

Originally Posted by tropper66

In 1969/70 the United States Navy had a base in Waterside in Londonderry

I vaguely recall that, but didn't take too much notice. My original point had nothing to do with USA invading north, more to do with supporting the Republic, in the event of Britain deciding to go south. We knew it would never happen, apart from anything else, it would widen the conflict beyond all reason.

I was in Newry in '71 for internment. Not a good time.

When I was in Ballykelly in 70 the USN used to fly in with RD4/C47s every few days old as hell but in great nick,all polished alloy

Originally Posted by tropper66

In 1969/70 the United States Navy had a base in Waterside in Londonderry

[/quote]

That was Clooney Base, later 1977ish, taken over by RMP.

A USN site about Clooney http://navcommsta-londonderry.freese...com/index.html

PIRA and INLA may have had their supporters in the South but nowhere near the levels some people think. Both organisations were more that capable of killing Garda and did.

http://saoirse32.blogsome.com/2006/0...urdered-garda/

I cannot find a link but I also recall in the late -70's (IIRC) INLA attacked a Radar Station in Eire (reputed to be US operated) and booby trapped the place.

Originally Posted by rickshaw-major

I cannot find a link but I also recall in the late -70's (IIRC) INLA attacked a Radar Station in Eire (reputed to be US operated) and booby trapped the place.

1982 - the INLA attacked and blew up the radar domes on Mount Gabriel in Cork, part of the national ATC network.
The INLA claimed that they were a legitimate military target or some bollocks.