Thread: A "what if...?" Going 'Sri Lankan' in Ulster

Originally Posted by tropper66

The South did intervene, It formed and trained the PIRA to insure that the OIRA could not take control of the war

Yea, right - what size tin-foil hat do you wear, by the way?

Originally Posted by tropper66

There was a rumour going around that some of PIRA where trained by the yanks

As per the comment above

Originally Posted by Trotsky

If we would have been prepared to fight in the way you suggest...... i think wiping out the souths defences would have been a daytrip for the armed forces in the 70's ........ might as well go the whole hog if the south are supporting the IRA!

trotsky

Thats quite an assumption you make there, shame its way off the mark

Wasn't an officer from G2 (Irish Military intelligence) tried for supplying the IRA with intelligence and training in the 70's?

Trotsky

On the reaction of the Irish government to Operation Motorman:

http://www.birw.org/Daniel%20Hegarty.html#_ftnref109

Jack Lynch, the Taoiseach of Ireland, was informed of Operation Motorman by Sir John Peck, the British Ambassador to Ireland, a few hours before the troops moved in. President Nixon of the USA, the Vatican, and other heads of state, including members of NATO and the European Community, were also forewarned.[34] Sir John Peck conveyed the warning to Dr Patrick Hillery, then the Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs, at 8:45 pm on 30th July. Dr Hillery conveyed the message to Jack Lynch, who was electioneering in County Cork, who asked Sir John Peck to meet him at Divisional Police Headquarters in Cork at 12:30 am on 31st July. At the meeting, which lasted an hour, the Taoiseach said he would support Operation Motorman on four conditions:

· that military action be quickly followed up with a political initiative;

· that firm action be taken against any Protestants maintaining or re-erecting barricades[35];

· no discrimination between the Catholic and Protestant communities and action to stop loyalist sectarian murders; and

· that every possible effort be made to spare innocent lives during and after the operation.[36]

How they would have reacted to an enhanced Motorman (Operation Folklore, according to the website linked below), I'm not sure...

Originally Posted by Trotsky

Wasn't an officer from G2 (Irish Military intelligence) tried for supplying the IRA with intelligence and training in the 70's?

Trotsky

Were you in the Int Corp TA and OB now? no dig at cap badge or TA whatsoever here but honestly you are listening to too many tin foil hats and mess bullsh1tters here.

Captain Kelly (Irish Army intelligence, how those days must fly by) was ordered by Neil Blaney and Charlie Haughey (cabinet ministers of the day during the panic of 196 to procure arms for the defence of Catholic communities and all three quite rightly went to trial for it. It kept Haughey in the wilderness for a while.

Lets get this straight here, the Irish state, Police and Army and the IRA (OIRA or PIRA) are no friends to each other, the IRA has (or did then) have a major goal of overthrowing the govt of the south, a govt who executed many IRA members and introduced internment during the 1940's and 1950's. While individual and very small numbers of the souths security forces may have supported the IRA (rogue members of the RUC and UDR and Loyalists anyone?) it was in no way policy at all, only a few years ago PIRA were shooting OB in the south. Honestly do some reading it is quite surprising the complexities or contact Gallowglass he is something of an expert on this.

I am often amazed when I meet British born and educated Asians who believe in 9/11 conspiracies but I hear the same thing from those who should know better regarding PIRA and the Irish state

No digs here, but lets be realistic rather than assumptions and rumors spun by idiots which gain acceptance over time

Originally Posted by old_fat_and_hairy

It would have been a very sad day for Britain as a whole. Whilst not supporting, or even condoning the IRA, there was, as previously said, a growing swell of concern for the Catholic minority in the North, both over the erosion of their civil rights and the discrimination played against them in housing, employment and education. This concern was reflected in parts of mainland Britain too, notably in Scotland and the north-west areas of England.
A military adventure on the scale mentioned would have drawn the Repuclic of Ireland into the arena, and whils there is no doubt that eventually British forces may have won the confrontation, it would have been at a huge cost. The Irish armed forces may have been smaller than ours, but were vastly experienced, having fought in the Congo and other places as UN troops.
Putting aside any political condemnation by USA and others, there was a very real danger that the Unites States could have become involved militarily, and that would have been a disaster. And not just from a military standpoint. Politically, the fall-out would have been huge. It would have meant the end of our partnership with America, opened up enormous gaps in NATO and allowed the Soviets ample opportunity to exploit this disharmony to their great advantage.

what fking planet are you on?

What Vonshot said.

I know a few people who had to dive for cover when receiving incoming from PIRA and INLA whilst clutching their trusty truncheon for defense.

As I said earlier in the thread, more British citizens (that's what they are, like it or lump it) vote Sinn Fein than ever do in the south.

The South invested a significant amount of time, effort and money (for a poor pre Celtic Tiger country an enormous amount) into trying to contain the IRA threat. They were constrained by a few issues, the main one being that proof is required in courts. The same constraints applied in the North.

Originally Posted by flamingo

Originally Posted by tropper66

The South did intervene, It formed and trained the PIRA to insure that the OIRA could not take control of the war

Yea, right - what size tin-foil hat do you wear, by the way?

This is new to me too. Wherever did it come from?

MsG

Originally Posted by Schleswig-Holstein

One of my PhD students is a Dub and his dad was in the predecessor to the Irish reserve defence force (CFA?) back in the 1960s/70s.

He said that during the time of Bloody Sunday, his dad and oppos were mobilised and were heading for Derry (sh!ting themselves he is keen to add), until they were turned around ca. 20 miles or so from the border.

Anyone know if this actually happened?

I seem to recall seeing on a documentary (poss. one of Peter Taylor's)that Irish PM Jack Lynch mobilised Irish Army medical units to positions just inside the border (on the Eire side obviously). Can any reader confirm this?

Originally Posted by foxs_marine

Originally Posted by Schleswig-Holstein

One of my PhD students is a Dub and his dad was in the predecessor to the Irish reserve defence force (CFA?) back in the 1960s/70s.

He said that during the time of Bloody Sunday, his dad and oppos were mobilised and were heading for Derry (sh!ting themselves he is keen to add), until they were turned around ca. 20 miles or so from the border.

Anyone know if this actually happened?

I seem to recall seeing on a documentary (poss. one of Peter Taylor's)that Irish PM Jack Lynch mobilised Irish Army medical units to positions just inside the border (on the Eire side obviously). Can any reader confirm this?

As far as I know, they were medical units to intercept catholics being burned out of their homes and those who wanted to get the hell away from the unrest. Reception centres were set up in Donegal? Many of these people never went back and settled in the south IIRC

Peter Taylor is one of the few to actually be fairly impartial when covering the troubles

Originally Posted by flamingo

As I said earlier in the thread, more British citizens (that's what they are, like it or lump it) vote Sinn Fein than ever do in the south.

Actually they are not British Citizens. They are "citizens" (Subjects to be pedantic) of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

They are Irish, not British. Something many are proud to proclaim while content to remain within the UK.

Originally Posted by Vonshot

Originally Posted by tropper66

There was a rumour going around that some of PIRA where trained by the yanks

As per the comment above

In 1970 there were rumours going around 8 Brigade ops room that a number of likley lads where being trained by the South's inteligence unit in county Donegal, shortly after this PIRA raised its ugly head, It was said the South did not want OIRA, A marxist mob , to be involved in the North. You must remember that OIRA had been purged in the South in the 1920s by De-Valera

Originally Posted by blindfire

Originally Posted by old_fat_and_hairy

It would have been a very sad day for Britain as a whole. Whilst not supporting, or even condoning the IRA, there was, as previously said, a growing swell of concern for the Catholic minority in the North, both over the erosion of their civil rights and the discrimination played against them in housing, employment and education. This concern was reflected in parts of mainland Britain too, notably in Scotland and the north-west areas of England.
A military adventure on the scale mentioned would have drawn the Repuclic of Ireland into the arena, and whils there is no doubt that eventually British forces may have won the confrontation, it would have been at a huge cost. The Irish armed forces may have been smaller than ours, but were vastly experienced, having fought in the Congo and other places as UN troops.
Putting aside any political condemnation by USA and others, there was a very real danger that the Unites States could have become involved militarily, and that would have been a disaster. And not just from a military standpoint. Politically, the fall-out would have been huge. It would have meant the end of our partnership with America, opened up enormous gaps in NATO and allowed the Soviets ample opportunity to exploit this disharmony to their great advantage.

what fking planet are you on?

Mine is called Earth, and considering this is a 'what if' thread, I make a fair assumption. Do try to remember that the Irish voice in American politics is probably even stronger than the Jewish one, and Nixon had inherited a strong baseline of votes from the Kennedy days.
Had the British decided -for whatever reason - to invade Ireland then the political ramifications would heve been huge. The Americans have not always supported us in military adventures. Suez springs to mind. And, since every septic who has ever seen 'Going my way' or listened to 'The mountains of Mourne' claims Irish descent, it would have been a damnably politically unpopular move not to respond in some way.

Originally Posted by old_fat_and_hairy

Originally Posted by blindfire

Originally Posted by old_fat_and_hairy

It would have been a very sad day for Britain as a whole. Whilst not supporting, or even condoning the IRA, there was, as previously said, a growing swell of concern for the Catholic minority in the North, both over the erosion of their civil rights and the discrimination played against them in housing, employment and education. This concern was reflected in parts of mainland Britain too, notably in Scotland and the north-west areas of England.
A military adventure on the scale mentioned would have drawn the Repuclic of Ireland into the arena, and whils there is no doubt that eventually British forces may have won the confrontation, it would have been at a huge cost. The Irish armed forces may have been smaller than ours, but were vastly experienced, having fought in the Congo and other places as UN troops.
Putting aside any political condemnation by USA and others, there was a very real danger that the Unites States could have become involved militarily, and that would have been a disaster. And not just from a military standpoint. Politically, the fall-out would have been huge. It would have meant the end of our partnership with America, opened up enormous gaps in NATO and allowed the Soviets ample opportunity to exploit this disharmony to their great advantage.

what fking planet are you on?

Mine is called Earth, and considering this is a 'what if' thread, I make a fair assumption. Do try to remember that the Irish voice in American politics is probably even stronger than the Jewish one, and Nixon had inherited a strong baseline of votes from the Kennedy days.
Had the British decided -for whatever reason - to invade Ireland then the political ramifications would heve been huge. The Americans have not always supported us in military adventures. Suez springs to mind. And, since every septic who has ever seen 'Going my way' or listened to 'The mountains of Mourne' claims Irish descent, it would have been a damnably politically unpopular move not to respond in some way.

Three of the largest contributors to NORAID where the New York, Chicago, and Boston Police forces