ARmy Rumour SErvice

Question for the OP. Is the "victim" now in a different chain of command? If so, there is part of his answer. Use the new Chain of Command to make his formal complaint following Devex and KC advise above.

Showing my ignorance here, never been through it myself. What happens, if the complaint is pushed through, and let's go with the ranks given above, the following plays out:

Scenario 1.

CO gets complaint. Calls in OC and WO2 to hear their side. WO2 emerges from COs office, and goes to find Cpl. Takes Cpl behind the garages and tells him "if you f*** my career because of this, I will make sure you go down with me. Now f*** off!".

Does Cpl then go and report this to the CO? No witnesses, no nothing. But the WO2 has just exemplified the very behavior being complained of.

Scenario 2.

OC gets a wendy on after having his tabs in the COs in tray. "SSM - get me Cpl X". Cpl X tabs in. "I hope you're proud of yourself, Cpl X. You might win this redress, but you'd best prepare for a posting to (insert unpleasant posting here), and consider yourself on the top of my shit list. If the CO finds this unproven, I will make it my business to ensure you can't ruin people's careers in future".

Again, the OC would be showing favoritism to the WO2 over the Cpl, the very substance of the complaint.

What safeguards does the JSP have to stop this from happening?

Originally Posted by roadster280

Showing my ignorance here, never been through it myself. What happens, if the complaint is pushed through, and let's go with the ranks given above, the following plays out:

Scenario 1.

CO gets complaint. Calls in OC and WO2 to hear their side. WO2 emerges from COs office, and goes to find Cpl. Takes Cpl behind the garages and tells him "if you f*** my career because of this, I will make sure you go down with me. Now f*** off!".

Does Cpl then go and report this to the CO? No witnesses, no nothing. But the WO2 has just exemplified the very behavior being complained of.

Scenario 2.

OC gets a wendy on after having his tabs in the COs in tray. "SSM - get me Cpl X". Cpl X tabs in. "I hope you're proud of yourself, Cpl X. You might win this redress, but you'd best prepare for a posting to (insert unpleasant posting here), and consider yourself on the top of my shit list. If the CO finds this unproven, I will make it my business to ensure you can't ruin people's careers in future".

Again, the OC would be showing favoritism to the WO2 over the Cpl, the very substance of the complaint.

What safeguards does the JSP have to stop this from happening?

The case I have knowledge of is slighlty similar to this, so i can go off practical info - The CO will interview complainant as well as the people complained about, individuals get told not to discuss withanyone and not to communicate with the complainant. CO can move complaminant to another Coy/Sqn post for the duration of his "investigation" to prevent any of this happening, and at the end of it, the complainant has to agree that he is happy with the outcome or the CO has to push it up. if it transpires that someone has tried to deal with this "in house" behind the garages, or offer long lingering postings in horrible places, that someone can be in deep poo!! a lot more poo than the original transgression (if proved !) The JSP covers it!!

none of the lot involved in the Service Complaint i was aware of tried to influence anyone....especially if they said that they havent done anything wrong!! remember....innocent until proven guilty. in the end my complainant got moved and a year later proved his point nby getting promoted, the individual complained about got a Major AGAI but is still serving at the same rank.

K_C

Thanks for the advice so far. He made his complaint via the JSP procedures and in writing. Six months ago!! The complaint was about the individual above Staff Sgt level. Sadly this is where it went pair shaped and the OC started to make things difficult for the soldier.

First the reflection periods this went on for about two weeks, informing the soldier he would be sent away if he made his complaint official. Then once he committed to paper he was sent away and barred from the camp, more or less treated like he was a criminal.

I know part of the procedure is to separate the two party's but it felt like this was not a consideration for his welfare but more a threat that kept being given if he made the complaint. Nothing happened towards the individual above Staff Sgt level

The OC then started to work on all the named witnesses, with passing comments about futures and hints on promotions What I found extremely unprofessional was the way the OC was slating the soldier to all at any opportunity, even the Civilians who work there who are also witnesses.
Yet at no time was anyone ever asked the killer question. Did the individual above Staff Sgt level do any of what was claimed.

I have already seen an email by the OC claiming he had conducted an internal investigation and claiming there was no evidence to support the complaint! In my opinion and that of the other witnesses, He has lied to the CO!

What leaves a bitter taste for me is the conduct of the OC. We are all expected to follow values and standards. I have seen soldiers careers torn to bits for a minor mistake or wrong comment in the mess, yet here I have witnessed a soldier openly victimised for making a complaint and the OC is not even hiding the fact!

Should this conduct be pointed out in any investigation or will it be ignored?

Even if the service complaints commissioner was to be involved they would not have any sway on the outcome as ultimately the CO as the deciding officer would still have to make the call.
Would a CO make a more balanced judgement if the SCC were involved?

From the CoC view has the Cpl failed the service test? if so has the CoC AGAId said Cpl or appointed a mentor?

If Cpl has been AGAId and put on a 3 monthly then obviously the CoC are going about their business correctly.

Or

Is the SSM/WO2 appointment merely trying to kick start the Cpl into becomming a JNCO? Is the WO2 merely using his past experiences in banter/motivation (however poor). Has the Cpl been interviewd through his CoC ie Tp Sgt/Ldr in order to have the facts recorded?

It would be interesting to know if the Cpl is an attached arm and which Corps branches are involved?

I thought that when I left all those years ago this kind of shit had been sorted , or was well on the way out. Please tell me this is not the norm? The suggestion re the Padre is a good one

What King_Chimp said in post 11.
Plus nearly all Brigades have a Bullying & Harrasment Confidential Line.
Ring them up and tell them about the situation.

No the guy was or is a very good worker with very good Sjar's so no underling problems with work output, discipline or effort to task. Again I do not wish to be too specific as it a very sensitive issue, What I can say is that individual with the rank above Staff Sgt held a grudge towards the soldier out of jealously. This was plain to see in the office.