Originally Posted by Vaughany

Is the PECOC stuff going to be displayed at DVD this week. This year the people who do defense clothing and equipment are going to be there so i'm just wondering.

DVD ?

Big DE&S/Industry show & tell at the Millbrook proving ground, Bedfordshire.

Cheers.
Is there anywhere online where i can have a look at this stuff?

Originally Posted by BedIn

I've sort of been on the periphery of PECOC and I've been impressed, both by the equipment they are looking at but more so by their attitude.

A few things. Firstly webbing. It has been accepted that soldiers will mess with their webbing and customise it to death. Therefore, PECOC will most probably see options for belt, vest and on-armour load carriage. The individual will get a bag of pouches - more than they need - and will set about rigging it up as they find best.

Much of the clothing is comparable with current good civi otdoors kit; think buffalo, lowe, sealskin. They are also looking at keeping labels on the kit, meaning that if it's made by a known company their label will be on it so the blokes know what it is and like to use it. Oakley eye protection, anyone? Also, as well as being functional, the blokes will have to like the kit. If it looks duff it won't be bought.

On cam. Digi isn't doing very well in trials; DPM is much better. The first to get digi were Canada. This was by accident. The first step to developing a new cam is to digitise it, before developing further. However, people saw the prototype and liked it, mainly because it looked all "starship troopers". The Yanks then jumped on the bandwagon and the rest is history. We may end up with a slightly modified DPM; same colours and patterns but perhaps a different balance of colours. There is talk of webbing being a hybrid cam which will work in both temperate and arid, so that you don't need new pouches when off to Iraq or Afghanistan.

All of this may sound like a waste of money, but when you see defence spending you'll see what a real waste is. Camouflage stops you being seen and therefore shot - a bonus I would have thought. Our current load carriage is good, but could be better; and anyone who's carried the real Infantry load on ops will know we need all the help we can. Amongst the things being looked at is a Daysac that sits properly over Osprey and/or it's replacement. Surely a good thing and a development driven by need? New kit, most importantly FIST, is being developed so current loadbearing kit may not match the new requirements at all.

One advantage that the DC IPT dealing with PECOC have is the relatively low cost of manufacture and the fact that clothing is really a consumable. Struff can be fielded and then observations and lessons learned can be introduced as clothing is replaced through wear and tear. PECOC will be good. It's not a waste of defence money; not like aircraft carriers, the third tranche of Typhoon and the posh chairs in the MOD.

Oh, and the boots!! The plan is to have three or four types available and the individual chooses which ones he likes most and finds most comfortable. Tell me that's not very sensible.

This all sounds far too good to be true.
Anyone know if the issue be forces wide (Army/Navy/RAF/Reseve forces)?

I was at DVD today and there were loads of clothing manufacturers showing off new type uniforms.

Not certain, but I've seen one or two lads from 16AA with what looked like the new desert stuff on. Looks like the Chinese trials DPM but three tone.

The hybrid camo looks reminiscent of the old Rhodesian bush camo. The new webbing, load bearing armour vest and new Bergen are very comfy.
The DPM hasn't changed much, just a bit lighter, Desert looks like Chinese as was said before.
Combat and Survival may have pictures of it next month

There was a stand at DVD with the PECOC kit on it. I counted four schemes of DPM: same as the current temperate, a similar pattern with a lighter shade of green, a desert with a dark grey third colour and a pattern including a light blue-grey

Interestingly, there was a face protector on the stand, as well as the conventional armours.

Daywalker, are you a contractor making digi-cam?!

Cam patterns are selected not on what a few blokes think looks best, but as the result of an awful lot of research, dvelopment and modelling. If a pink stripey one worked best,then we would have that.

Selection of Cam is a pretty complex task. At what ranges do we take most casualties? At what ranges, therefore, do we need to be most hidden? What happens when the material is wet? Of dusty? What are it's performance characteristics at day or night? What is lit like when you're static and/or mobile? Etc, etc.

Trust the PECOC team - they are involved in some of the best develpment in DE&S. What we get will be the best for stopping us getting shot.

Im just curious!!! I know there is alot that goes into this sort of thing. However i do think that examples of this kit should be pushed down to all units not just a select few of the big hitters, to be fair some joe at CTC or Catterick is not gonna have much imput on the stuff.

I just think it is a bit strange that it seems to be a bit of a secret, i reckon half the army probably hasn't even heard about PECOC or what it's about. I know i didn't before looking at these forums.

Personally i just think projects like this should be a bit more open to the man on the ground.