Originally Posted by labrat

I've long argued, and done a fair amount of experimentation on the theory, that the most effective cam is mismatched top and bottom halves - for example one man wearing a DPM jacket and olive trousers, the next DPM trousers and a 'nutria'/coyote brown jacket, and the next man olive trousers and a flecktarn type jacket, etc - the more variety/choice/randomness instilled in military combat uniforms the better - the brain is looking for certain things, the more you can break up that pattern/order the more you can fool it.

Once the adrenaline starts flowing, soldiers wouldn't be able to tell who was British and who was enemy, especially if they were some distance away. The potential for blue-on-blues would be huge.

Unless we had, oooh I dunno, some kind of weapon that ONLY the UK used?

:D

Anyone know what the new togs are like?

Like CS95 just in the new colours, or redesigned from scratch with gucci materials and such?

I've a few mates who swear by 'soft shell' jackets when outdoors (I have the Buffalo for when it gets that chilly tho ) so maybe that sort of fabric would be a good idea for cold weather - not that I can see everyone ditching their beloved windproof smocks anytime soon...

What about brown boots for non-desert theatres?

Black is very visible and AIUI brown polich has more wax so water repellancy is improved as well as visibility being reduced.

B

Umm you mean desert boots for everywhere, like the Americans are doing?

Nah. Imagine a few days on exercise, esp in winter. Boots'd be so waterlogged, that'd be no fun...

Clue - brown polish...

Originally Posted by Voltiguer

Anyone know what the new togs are like?

Like CS95 just in the new colours, or redesigned from scratch with gucci materials and such?

I've a few mates who swear by 'soft shell' jackets when outdoors (I have the Buffalo for when it gets that chilly tho ) so maybe that sort of fabric would be a good idea for cold weather - not that I can see everyone ditching their beloved windproof smocks anytime soon...

UBACs you should already know about: bring into core issue

LW Jkt: No traditional pockets on the front, instead big side entry pockets that means you can slide your hand under your armour and into the pocket. high collar (if worn up) stop chaffing on the armour, built in but removable pads. The pockets from the front redesigned and on the upper arms, arm pocket front all velcro for combat id. no buttons where armour touches.

Trs: Reinforced seat, slanted map pockets for easy of entry, smaller lower leg pockets, built in but removable knee pads, zip internal pockets, 'key' clip inside pocket

Materials will remain the same. Temperate is more robust, quick drying and not so breathable; desert is the current very thin material, very breathable. Both impregnated with anti-mosi for 50 washes

As for the rest: thermal layers = Softie jkts, buffolo jkts, thermal shirt, new norgie, new T-shirt, 3 types of socks, new combat smocks, 2 new gloves, fire retardant \ thermal headover. pause for breath.....2 types of boots, combat underpants, complete new load carriage, complete new ballistic protection, canoe bags, ballistic eye wear, new helmet, face guard, belt, a complete new sleeping and shelter system and..........a lightweight waterproof system.

All real, all been trialed, few of us wearing it 24\7 to assess its barracks use, first round of integration work done with engr, CSS, armour boys, just about to start air platforms, Infantry main trial done x 2, Funding decisions being made now.

I am a sceptical old bugger but I have travel the world and played with all the other nations kit; there is no single system that is better for the British soldier and the way we work.....IMHO. Regardless of how the cash generated or what hard decisions are made in the current attempts to balance the MoD books the system will come in...the only question is how fast.

Originally Posted by kitmonster

Regardless of how the cash generated or what hard decisions are made in the current attempts to balance the MoD books the system will come in...the only question is how fast.

This statement has real credibility.

Why can't the politicians come out with something like that?

MSR

Hello Kitmonster

LW Jkt: No traditional pockets on the front, instead big side entry pockets that means you can slide your hand under your armour and into the pocket. high collar (if worn up) stop chaffing on the armour, built in but removable pads. The pockets from the front redesigned and on the upper arms, arm pocket front all velcro for combat id. no buttons where armour touches.

Trs: Reinforced seat, slanted map pockets for easy of entry, smaller lower leg pockets, built in but removable knee pads, zip internal pockets, 'key' clip inside pocket

These 2 items seem to be similar to those which I trialled (along with many, many others) in Summer 2007. If they are the same, they made you sweat profusely, even after removing the rubber inserts from sleeves and trs.
I did like them, just not with body armour.

They are now stored in my loft... just in case.

Arfah

Originally Posted by arfah

Hello Kitmonster

LW Jkt: No traditional pockets on the front, instead big side entry pockets that means you can slide your hand under your armour and into the pocket. high collar (if worn up) stop chaffing on the armour, built in but removable pads. The pockets from the front redesigned and on the upper arms, arm pocket front all velcro for combat id. no buttons where armour touches.

Trs: Reinforced seat, slanted map pockets for easy of entry, smaller lower leg pockets, built in but removable knee pads, zip internal pockets, 'key' clip inside pocket

These 2 items seem to be similar to those which I trialled (along with many, many others) in Summer 2007. If they are the same, they made you sweat profusely, even after removing the rubber inserts from sleeves and trs.
I did like them, just not with body armour.

They are now stored in my loft... just in case.

Arfah

There has been a lot of trials so which one were you!

The trial on ops last year was actually a trial of two things. The first was the cut and shape which has proved to be ok, the second was the material. Users had complained that the desert material was not robust and said they wanted stronger stuff. It was explained that the reason desert kit wore out was due to its lw construction and highly breathable material. No no said the all knowing user we know best make our desert kit in temperate cloth. Its was duly done and put out to trial about 4 months after the initial request. The trial report said 'who asked for this sweaty uniform we want the old stuff back'. Only the trial kit (yours) was made in the temperate uniform as it was known it would fail but PJHQ and the units in the field had to have a report that said so.

The latest versions will be in the real desert cloth and have had some mods around the seat to increase breathability and stop bits sweating so much. The trial was worth doing as when we get the same question and request (every RiP as a new EC manager goes in) we can pull out the report and that normally stops them pursuing the idea.

If you have a temperate version I am not sure which of the many smaller trials you were on and therefore which version you had. Suffice to say 60 troops have been trialing the kit this summer in temperate colours with temperate cloth without complaint.

The first knee pads where just neoprene, the latest ones are shear strengthening pads which are lighter and are made of mesh to improve breathability