Thread: PECOC

Originally Posted by Voltiguer

Looks like nice kit. The big hippo pad rather than the belt makes me think of those 'all-in-one' sewn-together beltkits that have started cropping up; should be pretty stable, esp with the ubiquitous bungee/elastic/utility strap around the outside of it all as well.

2 questions though:

Is the plan for all straps (and as you mention, buckles too) to be produced in the hybrid cam? Just as the yoke on show has tan ones...

And is it still possible to attach the pouches straight to the body armour, as is done with Osprey atm?

Cheers!
V

If the decision is hybrid then the team will endeavour to make it all in hybrid colours, therefore it would be safe to assume that what ever the pattern or colour might be the tapes and buckles will be in the load carriage colours.

The pouches (about 14 last time I checked) will fit any where on the patrol sack, webbing, assault vest, main Bergan, fragmentation vest (like Osprey) and even the plate carrier. That said the frag cover is lightweight as its designed to be a slim fitting and agile as possible so while you can load up a fair bit you would not want to go to the extremes that people are using Osprey for. It can be done but as you ramp up the durability of the frag cover you ramp up the weight and ramp down the flexibility, comfort and vehicle integration which soldiers have said is a issue for them; this obviously means that if you want to carry really heavy loads you would need to wear your assault vest or webbing in conjunction with the frag cover. Its not long before you are back as Osprey, durable but heavy, uncomfortable and festooned with buckles and popper studs. If that's what you want (and for some units SOPs it might be) then there is a parallel piece of work which is in effect a 'better Osprey' due to be seen in the near future.

Quick few questions:

Looking at the pictures of the hybrid webbing worn over new desert cam the hybrid almost looked more pale & 'desertish' than the desert. Could the hybrid be used as a general desert and semi-arid for clothes & all or was this more of a side effect of being photographed in front of (very un-desertish!) green grass?

Why are the body stampings etc of rifles/minimis/UGLs not painted olive green/brown/yukky combo? When the uniform down to the rubber grip patches is being carefully designed & cammed it seems a bit foolish to then have a big square edged black thing waving in front of it. Surely the new handguard & UGL on the SA80 for example could have been painted as per the US SCAR. I know it can be taped etc but it would save a bit of hassle.

Thanks KM, sounds like a well-thought out idea. Essentials on the armour and the rest in a Daysack, or the new hippo-padded beltkit should you need to carry more then...

Although if a Camelback or similar is available then we should be able to do away with the majority of the webbing load, seeing as 2 waterbottles on the belt is pretty much standard. The only thing you'd need on the armour then is magazines, grenades, bayonet and PRR; team equipment like command kit and radios etc, could also be in the Daysack, meaning much less kit needing to be supported by the body armour covers.

I'm sure this has all been thought through though, and of course individuals will tweak things to how they want them.

Originally Posted by Lewis

Its a bit like current SADF and Rhodesian pattern.

There are no current SADF or Rhodesian patterns.


But if the colours shown on the screen are true to those of the webbing, they bear a close resemblance to the tones of the Soldier 2000 patt.
(Which I think is the one you mean.)

KM

I might have asked this before, but have you considered brown as the colour for leather field boots? Less visible than black and I gather that brown polish has greater waterproofing qualities.

BB

When the Soldier 2000 uniform was first issued, the boots were of a quaint light green colour. Unfortunately procurement forgot, or decided not, to issue any matching polish which meant the troep at the end of the food chain had to use the supplies of brown (nearly oxblood,) polish meant for the previous uniform boots.
The idea of green was sound enough but once again stuffed up by the chairborne worriers.

As has been mentioned before all cam patterns turn the colour of the theatre after a couple of weeks in the bush, so Browns were fine anyway.






(Edited for clarity & to correct moronic spelling.)

Cheers Cuts.

Still seems sound to me, its not as if Kiwi don't produce brown polish...

[quote="Bravo_Zulu"]

Originally Posted by arfah

This is the 2007 trial kit. Don't know who the "model" is ?

TUCK YOUR FCUKING SHIRT IN YOU SCRUFFY LITTLE MAN :quote]

I've long wondered about the strange practice of tucking a top that is clearly designed to be worn outside trousers into trousers. The problem is now revealed, calling them a 'shirt' when they are obviously a hot climate jacket. My suggestion is to learn from armies that have some extended experience of hot climates, eg Australia, and wear them outside trousers.

And anybody who actually thinks it looks better tucked in needs to get professional help from Trinny and Susanna.

This actually gets to the real issue of self supporting trousers. The only sensible arangement is the wrap around straps with small buckles on the hips and no need for a belt. Even congenitally scruffy soldiers can at least manage to look halfway OK with this, the arrangements adopted with OGs. The arrangements adopted with N generations of combats have all been crap, no doubt zip flies are the excuse.

Originally Posted by Petardier

Originally Posted by Bravo_Zulu

Originally Posted by arfah

This is the 2007 trial kit. Don't know who the "model" is ?

TUCK YOUR FCUKING SHIRT IN YOU SCRUFFY LITTLE MAN :D

I've long wondered about the strange practice of tucking a top that is clearly designed to be worn outside trousers into trousers. The problem is now revealed, calling them a 'shirt' when they are obviously a hot climate jacket. My suggestion is to learn from armies that have some extended experience of hot climates, eg Australia, and wear them outside trousers.

And anybody who actually thinks it looks better tucked in needs to get professional help from Trinny and Susanna.

This actually gets to the real issue of self supporting trousers. The only sensible arangement is the wrap around straps with small buckles on the hips and no need for a belt. Even congenitally scruffy soldiers can at least manage to look halfway OK with this, the arrangements adopted with OGs. The arrangements adopted with N generations of combats have all been crap, no doubt zip flies are the excuse.

I should point out first of all that I was joking ;)

CS95 certainly does look smarter with the shirt tucked in rather than flapping loose, provided the shirt fits properly. However an attitude has developed that it is exclusively a shirt, not a lightweight alternative for a smock, when it could feasibly be both.

As for holding trousers up, CS95 has little button adjusters on the side and drawstrings; IMO the working belt is better anyway except under webbing. I would disagree with your attitude to zip flies too; essential in cold winds, as Hitler's button-fly-trouser-wearing soldiers found out in Russia.

Hello again ! :D

The "shirt" is definitely not a shirt, "It's a jaackeett !"

I wouldn't like to have to wear it under a smock. It has reinforced, removable neoprene elbow pads, has flush velcro fastening chest pockets and an unconventional collar design (I likened it to Dr Evil's suit) although the collar can be worn flat if required. It's designed to be worn under body armour (velcro everywhere - including in place of a button fly on the strides ! ).
I found the entire ensemble a little warmer than the standard issue. I was sweating like a beast ! The temp was high 40's to early 50's-ish The Stan 2007.

When we were issued the trial kit we received a list of do's & do not do's ! One of which was to wear it untucked ! There are smaller pockets on the sleeves and velcro patches (akin to the UBACS) on the upper arm for stick on rank, zap no., bld gp & fmn badges if you desired but absolutely no sew ons ! It was good to have an extra set of kit. It's presently in my loft space ready for use - just in case of a decorating emergency.
I mentioned on the comments sheet for the trial that it would be good if the thigh pockets were larger on the strides (they're smaller than cs95) and would be good for temperate use. There are other trouser leg pockets further down which could probably fit a packet of fags / ffd / iPod and may be handy for drivers on a long drag but otherwise I couldn't find a practical use for them.

Anyway, that's why the shirt is untucked - A: Bloke said so B: It was hot !

Originally Posted by Bravo_Zulu

...
I would disagree with your attitude to zip flies too; essential in cold winds, as Hitler's button-fly-trouser-wearing soldiers found out in Russia.

Metal zip-flies aren't that great either when it gets cold. Things can get a little ... sticky.

Originally Posted by PassingBells

Originally Posted by Bravo_Zulu

...
I would disagree with your attitude to zip flies too; essential in cold winds, as Hitler's button-fly-trouser-wearing soldiers found out in Russia.

Metal zip-flies aren't that great either when it gets cold. Things can get a little ... sticky.

And God invented Helly Hansen Lifa long johns and saw that they were good

(At least the fly keeps more wind out than buttons).

Sorry for asking what may be an extremely bone question but...

Is PECOC being designed to integrate with FIST?
Is FIST the same as PECOC?
Or has FIST been scrapped all together?

booty_cadet Wrote:

Sorry for asking what may be an extremely bone question but...

Is PECOC being designed to integrate with FIST?
Is FIST the same as PECOC?
Or has FIST been scrapped all together?

In very simply terms PECOC is the clothing (webbing / body armour and helmet etc) of FIST. The rest of FIST is the hardware (Sights/Radios and the like).

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/fist/

Salvador

Thank you very much. So I'm guessing its fully integrated?