ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by fuggyred

I know what you're driving at but I signed up to do that dangerous job, the ops part is the job, its not above and beyond. if you wasn't up for it you wouldn't have signed up in the first place. Because that is where the distinction is made. when you sign up you sign up for whatever comes next, which we are at the beck and call of our commanders.

But you signed up not knowing whether you would actually serve on operations didn't you? No one guaranteed you'd serve on ops when you joined. All armies make distinctions between those who have served on operations and those who have not by way of medals. What is wrong with that? It is just a way of thanking us for putting our lives at risk. A far cry from wanting a medal for doing nothing.

I do not think because I've got a few gongs I'm any better or worse than those who have more or less than me.

Neither do I. But I would say that I bet I feel more fulfilled as an infantry soldier then those who served in the infantry who haven't experienced combat. Unless of course they joined the infantry with a view of not experiencing combat.

One thing that is different though we chose this career, National Servicmen had no choice. So I have sympathy there, and many of them where treated like shlt.

We all get treated like sh1t at times. Is it worth a medal?

Originally Posted by verticalgyro

Two points if you had paid the ultimate sacrifice for the armed struggle against the IRA:

a) You wouldn't be posting in this forum
b) Your family would have received a medal for this.

Although I have semi-trolled this thread as I find the arguments "for" an NDM derisory; in particular from the people who spent 22 years in BAOR pickling their livers as part of the Mobile Bath Support Unit, I would also say that there does deserve to be recognition for those who served under National Service. They had no choice in the matter, and gave two years of their lives. Those who joined up, did 22 years, took the pay and are now enjoying their pensions and never managed to get on an operation; I have to say that's either very good planning or very good luck.

Can't say I agree with the distinction between National Service or volunteers because there were opportunities for exemption or deferment. Ironically those who dismiss the NDM often argue that National Servicemen and women had the same opportunities to qualify for a medal as those who volunteered so neither National Service or volunteer should receive an NDM?

Excellent threads

Originally Posted by Dunnit

Can't say I agree with the distinction between National Service or volunteers because there were opportunities for exemption or deferment.

Erm - What?

A volounteer is a volounteer. They joined willingly.

A National Serviceman was enlisted against his will, unless he had a valid reason not to be enlisted (like being a farmer, my grandfather was exempted this way).

So there is a vast difference.

[quote="Fallschirmjager"]

Originally Posted by Dunnit

Originally Posted by Fugly

The NDM would cover many issues including the NI conflict and the Cold War threat... maybe you should read the report if you aren't sure what it is actually about. You can download it from the NDM website as I did.

But there has been a medal instituted for NI. None for the cold war as fuckall happened as far as I remember and i've served since 1988.

You must be joking. Have a read here and see all the IRA bombings and killings outside Northern Ireland, yet not one GSM clasp was awarded to soldiers who were not posted to N Ireland because England Scotland & Wales were not considered a risk and rigour operational area.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=40457848306

what unit is "The Mobile Bath Support Unit" and how would it be possible to spend 22 years in BAOR?

[quote="badal"]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Originally Posted by Dunnit

Originally Posted by Fugly

The NDM would cover many issues including the NI conflict and the Cold War threat... maybe you should read the report if you aren't sure what it is actually about. You can download it from the NDM website as I did.

But there has been a medal instituted for NI. None for the cold war as fuckall happened as far as I remember and i've served since 1988.

You must be joking. Have a read here and see all the IRA bombings and killings outside Northern Ireland, yet not one GSM clasp was awarded to soldiers who were not posted to N Ireland because England Scotland & Wales were not considered a risk and rigour operational area.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=40457848306

So because a few were killed outside of operations everybody should be entitled to the medal? Is that what you are saying?

Originally Posted by Fugly

Originally Posted by fuggyred

I know what you're driving at but I signed up to do that dangerous job, the ops part is the job, its not above and beyond. if you wasn't up for it you wouldn't have signed up in the first place.
Because that is where the distinction is made. when you sign up you sign up for whatever comes next, which we are at the beck and call of our commanders.
Those who don't sign up avoid the dangerous job. that is the line for me that is what separates squaddies from civvies. the next line is gallantry and bravery.
I do not think because I've got a few gongs I'm any better or worse than those who have more or less than me.

One thing that is different though we chose this career, National Servicmen had no choice. So I have sympathy there, and many of them where treated like shlt.

I think you've taken it a bit too far.

I look at it like this. You sign up, agreeing that you may be called upon to be sent to theatres of operations where there is a substantial risk. Unless called upon to do so, then you are "doing your job", fulfilling your peacetime role (whatever it may be) and training for any potential deployment.

You are just as at risk to harm than the rest of the population. Some people don't like soldiers and target them. Some people don't like animal testing, and target them. Some people don't like.... the list goes on. So - for doing your normal in-barracks routine (whether in UK or BAOR, or elsewhere) - no medal deserved at all. Daily routine. Jog on.

Now and again though, you may be tasked to deploy to a theatre where the situation has demanded the presence of an Armed Force. No matter what your role in the deployment, you have still been sent there as part of the Operation to deal with that particular situation and that is when a medal - subject to qualifying criteria (time in theatre, etc) should be awarded.

It depends how you view operational. Most British Military bases are regarded as 'operational' and I would suggest that this was moreso during the NI conflict where personnel were engaged in duties focussing on the threat caused by that conflict.

The GSM was a medal for operations that fell short of war and used to cover NI. If you got killed or injured by the PIRA outside of NI, neither your family or you would qualify or receive a GSM under the same criteria used directly in the province, even if the threat was the same or even greater. The fact that all parties including the British Government accepted that the theatre was not confined exclusivley to the Province creates an anomoly.