Originally Posted by Dunnit

Fine, at least you have made an informed comment and I respect you for that and can at least agree to disagree with you, but I don't really do the slagging off and offending bit, just because people don't share my opinion.

I hope that you realise that I am not 'Stu'.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, my reasoned arguments are currently in the "binned" thread, and I can't be bothered tapping them out again. The crayoning of the thread by Stu is further stifling debate because everyone is annoyed at what a prattling, trolling fuckwit he is.

To put the NDM chat back onto subject, I have to say I am not really for or against it although I can understand both (sensible) arguments.

Is there any criteria for qualification that both sides would agree with or is it just a 'we want it' and 'we don't want it' stand off?

Originally Posted by Dunnit

Originally Posted by Fugly

Originally Posted by Dunnit

May I ask if you have read the report about the proposal for an NDM and identified what the medal would represent? It is far more than 'dragging your ass out of bed'. If you take the time to read the report it might give you a different perspective?

Back in the day when this was a serious discussion (i.e. before the fuckwit Stu281 joined and scribbled everywhere), yes, I did read it. I mulled it over for a while, then parked myself firmly back in the "No" camp, I'm afraid.

Fine, at least you have made an informed comment and I respect you for that and can at least agree to disagree with you, but I don't really do the slagging off and offending bit, just because people don't share my opinion.

I hope that you realise that I am not 'Stu'.

As people have said fucking countless times, on the previous (sensible) thread, plenty of people read the report, came to the conclusion that the NDM is not needed and argued accordingly. There have been arguments against on this thread that you have chosen to ignore. So what do you expect but sh1te thrown in your general direction?

Originally Posted by wedge35

Originally Posted by Dunnit

Originally Posted by Fugly

Originally Posted by Dunnit

May I ask if you have read the report about the proposal for an NDM and identified what the medal would represent? It is far more than 'dragging your ass out of bed'. If you take the time to read the report it might give you a different perspective?

Back in the day when this was a serious discussion (i.e. before the fuckwit Stu281 joined and scribbled everywhere), yes, I did read it. I mulled it over for a while, then parked myself firmly back in the "No" camp, I'm afraid.

Fine, at least you have made an informed comment and I respect you for that and can at least agree to disagree with you, but I don't really do the slagging off and offending bit, just because people don't share my opinion.

I hope that you realise that I am not 'Stu'.

As people have said * countless times, on the previous (sensible) thread, plenty of people read the report, came to the conclusion that the NDM is not needed and argued accordingly. There have been arguments against on this thread that you have chosen to ignore. So what do you expect but sh1te thrown in your general direction?

Actually, I haven't chosen to ignore anything, and I DON'T expect Sh1t tjhrown in my direction because it is rather immature.

I put this on the previous thread but I will repeat it here, it's a direct quote from a letter on the NDM campaign website and sums it up for me:

However, I do not attend memorial services/Remembrance Day parades because I am embarrassed by the fact that, despite nine years (five in Germany) in the British Army, I have nothing to show for my time in uniform.
Nothing that is except for the risible veteran’s badge.

It seems that the people shouting the loudest for a medal are doing so simply for their own vanity. They have lost sight of the real reason for remembrance parades (which is pretty much the only time former servicemen/women will wear their medals) and simply want to big themselves up.

Medals for gallantry, operational service, to mark coronations and jubilees and for long service are all deserved. A medal just for simply joining the services and going to work is wrong and I sincerely hope the NDM Campaign fails.

Actually, I haven't chosen to ignore anything, and I DON'T expect Sh1t tjhrown in my direction because it is rather immature.

Dunnit
Of course it is But this is what you get cos they all think their a bunch of ACES.
This is only according to the same old people (Againsts) who use the site. Please feel free to PM if you can

Originally Posted by verticalgyro

Originally Posted by Dunnit

Originally Posted by Fugly

Originally Posted by Dunnit

LSGC Medal? 15 years unblemished service. Worthy.
Coronation Medal? One time award. Limited issue. No longer available. Worthy.
Queen's Best Shot Medal? WTF?
Silver Jubilee Medal? One time award. Limited issue. No longer available. Worthy.
Golden Jubilee Medal? One time award. Limited issue. No longer available. Worthy.
Meritorious Service Medals? Very limited in issue to individuals who deserve it. Worthy.
Accumulated Service Medal? 1080 days deployed on Operations. Worthy.
etc.....?

Are you saying that these medals are worthless?

No. But a medal for dragging your arse out of bed is pointless.

National Defence Medal? Short Service + Irrelevant Conduct Medal? Look At Me Medal?

May I ask if you have read the report about the proposal for an NDM and identified what the medal would represent? It is far more than 'dragging your ass out of bed'. If you take the time to read the report it might give you a different perspective?

I don't need to read the propaganda from the NDM website promoting what they want an NDM for. I don't need it simply because I don't agree with it.

Incidentally, this year I went to my local church on Remembrance Sunday; Although I am still serving I just put a shirt and tie on. One of the guys who drinks in my local is a retired LE Lt Colonel, MM, five campaign medals (including GSM with MiD), LS&GC. Top guy, share a pint with him in the local and shoot the breeze (he left the army before I joined, he's getting on a bit). He asked me why I wasn't in uniform or wearing my medals. I told him "I've not had mine mounted since I got the last, and then realised it was all about the people who paid the ultimate price, not a day for people to look at me." He called me out straight away "Blollocks, it's because you couldn't be arrsed to make the effort..."

His son-in-law (Commando Engr retd, did 22 years as well) told him to shut the fcuk up, that was the same reason he wasn't wearing his.

Ex RAF Fitter who did 14 years, mainly in Germany, told him to shut the fcuk up as well, he wasn't wearing any because he had spent 14 years in Germany on the lash.

We had a couple of quiet pints in the local after the service, told a couple of stories, then went home.

Moral of the story - those whose opinions I actually care about don't actually give a fcuk about how many/few medals you have. The only people who would be impressed by an NDM would be the wrong type of people.

I have no problem with you saying that the only opinions that 'you' care about are those who don't care about how many medals you have, but to say that those who would be impressed by the NDM are the 'wrong' type of people only demonstrates your personal prejudice to those who may hold a different opinion to your own, which seems to be the concept of your argument.

Any argument based on prejudice, bias or hatred is no argument and has no merit, so it harms any reasoned opposition to the NDM.

Originally Posted by Dunnit

Originally Posted by wedge35

Originally Posted by Dunnit

Originally Posted by Fugly

Originally Posted by Dunnit

May I ask if you have read the report about the proposal for an NDM and identified what the medal would represent? It is far more than 'dragging your ass out of bed'. If you take the time to read the report it might give you a different perspective?

Back in the day when this was a serious discussion (i.e. before the fuckwit Stu281 joined and scribbled everywhere), yes, I did read it. I mulled it over for a while, then parked myself firmly back in the "No" camp, I'm afraid.

Fine, at least you have made an informed comment and I respect you for that and can at least agree to disagree with you, but I don't really do the slagging off and offending bit, just because people don't share my opinion.

I hope that you realise that I am not 'Stu'.

As people have said * countless times, on the previous (sensible) thread, plenty of people read the report, came to the conclusion that the NDM is not needed and argued accordingly. There have been arguments against on this thread that you have chosen to ignore. So what do you expect but sh1te thrown in your general direction?

Actually, I haven't chosen to ignore anything, and I DON'T expect Sh1t tjhrown in my direction because it is rather immature.

There have also been arguments "for" in this thread that the mudslingers have chosen to ignore. Instead of trying to come up with a reasoned adult debate, they instead try to use the tactics of the playground.
They don't agree with this medal, because medals are only given out for op tours (er, except for LSGC and QGJM, that is).
The only people who support the NDM are bling-hunters, walts, national servicemen or civvies; the only people who are allowed a say on the subject are the people who have done op tours.
If someone points out that they have 22 years regular service, including several years worth of Op tours, and he still supports the NDM, the pack change their tactics; the threats start, they challenge you to meet up with them in real life and they infer that the corps/ regiment you belong to is not as hard as theirs. Not particularly funny that, to anyone who has lost friends on op tours.
When you call their bluff, and make them look stupid, you suddenly notice that all of your posts on this topic have been removed by the Mods, although suspiciously, most of theirs remain.
You have made some good points here that many others agree with and support; my advice now is to leave the children to play.

From what I have read both sides arguing on this thread are proper arrses

Originally Posted by biffins-bridge

I put this on the previous thread but I will repeat it here, it's a direct quote from a letter on the NDM campaign website and sums it up for me:

However, I do not attend memorial services/Remembrance Day parades because I am embarrassed by the fact that, despite nine years (five in Germany) in the British Army, I have nothing to show for my time in uniform.
Nothing that is except for the risible veteran’s badge.

It seems that the people shouting the loudest for a medal are doing so simply for their own vanity. They have lost sight of the real reason for remembrance parades (which is pretty much the only time former servicemen/women will wear their medals) and simply want to big themselves up.

Medals for gallantry, operational service, to mark coronations and jubilees and for long service are all deserved. A medal just for simply joining the services and going to work is wrong and I sincerely hope the NDM Campaign fails.

Now that is what I call a reasonable argument which I hope I can respond to. I have read the NDM report and agree with it in the context that for many years Military personnel went to work daily under a very real threat of being shot or blown up by Irish Republican active service units. Many who did not serve directly in the Province of NI were indeed injured, maimed and killed as a result of such a threat and both the British Government and Irish Republican Forces acknowledged that the conflict was 'not' confined to NI and that Mainland and other European stationed personnel were at greater risk because of better security in the Province.

Although accepting this heightened risk and rigour, which is the test for a Campaign Medal (GSM), the government felt that it was innappropriate to award it to all, no doubt based on concerns relating to costs.

Having read the report, I am comfortable in accepting that there is a need for an NDM, not least because I do not regard those who served other than in NI, and were injured, maimed or killed by the same armed enemy, are any less worthy than those who served in the Province. The threat, the pain, the injury, the loss of limbs and the dying by those who suffered is the same, but for one group there was a medal and for another there was none. Terrorist groups actually admitted that it was easier to strike at British Forces outside of the province and the prestige was greater because it enabled them to internationalize their cause.

I don't expect you to agre with my conclusions, but that is one reason that I personally support the general concept of an NDM. If you disagree fine, but it shouldn't be a matter of name calling or insults.

I thank you for your opinion.