Thread: National Defence Medal (NDM)

Originally Posted by Zoot

Originally Posted by AFA06

Originally Posted by DarkBlueLoggie

[So we follow the Australian model further and have something like the Anniversary of National Service 1951-1972 Medal as well as the NDM?

I didn't actually say we should have a NDM - I just agreed that by awarding a NSM we may have avoided the bling we have nowadays. You are either being insulting or sarcastic, neither of which is particularly in keeping with what the thread is about.

As I have said a few times on here, personally I couldn't care less about a NDM, I am serving and have the usual collection of medals awarded to me, from what I can see, the vast majority of the ones wanting an NDM are ex-servicemen who are the very ones wearing the bling that annoys so many of us. Maybe, if they had an official medal awarded to them it would rid them of the need to walk around looking something like Gaddafi on Remembrance Services

Agreed - that would be one possible benefit

Some how I don’t think so

We want to wear bling

Campaigners are also annoyed that the MoD has advised local authorities that veterans are not allowed to wear commemorative medals and that this shouldn’t be encouraged at Armed Forces Day celebrations. Veterans have traditionally worn commemorative medals and there are no rules or regulations in respect of this and veterans often operate their own protocols of wearing them in a separate line to other medals. The Mod regards commemorative medals as unofficial

Andy added: “There are many veterans who wear commemorative medals as opposed to the veterans badge and one only has to look at the likes of the few remaining WW1 and WW2 veterans who proudly wear their commemorative medals. One only had to watch on TV as those who took part in the D-Day landings proudly wore their commemorative medals during the 65th Anniversary remembrance and who is to say that they aren’t allowed to do so?”

Their words not mine.

This is the third time I have posted it, maybe this time someone in the ‘for’ lobby can explain how the issuing of the NDM will reduce bling and not just open the flood gates to even more aggrieved protests

Originally Posted by CAARPS

Originally Posted by Zoot

Originally Posted by AFA06

Originally Posted by DarkBlueLoggie

[So we follow the Australian model further and have something like the Anniversary of National Service 1951-1972 Medal as well as the NDM?

I didn't actually say we should have a NDM - I just agreed that by awarding a NSM we may have avoided the bling we have nowadays. You are either being insulting or sarcastic, neither of which is particularly in keeping with what the thread is about.

As I have said a few times on here, personally I couldn't care less about a NDM, I am serving and have the usual collection of medals awarded to me, from what I can see, the vast majority of the ones wanting an NDM are ex-servicemen who are the very ones wearing the bling that annoys so many of us. Maybe, if they had an official medal awarded to them it would rid them of the need to walk around looking something like Gaddafi on Remembrance Services

Agreed - that would be one possible benefit

Some how I don’t think so

We want to wear bling

Campaigners are also annoyed that the MoD has advised local authorities that veterans are not allowed to wear commemorative medals and that this shouldn’t be encouraged at Armed Forces Day celebrations. Veterans have traditionally worn commemorative medals and there are no rules or regulations in respect of this and veterans often operate their own protocols of wearing them in a separate line to other medals. The Mod regards commemorative medals as unofficial

Andy added: “There are many veterans who wear commemorative medals as opposed to the veterans badge and one only has to look at the likes of the few remaining WW1 and WW2 veterans who proudly wear their commemorative medals. One only had to watch on TV as those who took part in the D-Day landings proudly wore their commemorative medals during the 65th Anniversary remembrance and who is to say that they aren’t allowed to do so?”

Their words not mine.

This is the third time I have posted it, maybe this time someone in the ‘for’ lobby can explain how the issuing of the NDM will reduce bling and not just open the flood gates to even more aggrieved protests

I did say "possible" benefit. I guess a lot of these people buy them because they feel there was insufficient recognition of their service. I don't agree with bling at all and wouldn't try to justify it as they seem to have done there. However if there was an integrated approach combining the issue of an NDM together with a stronger line on bing from RBL and other bodies, then it might reduce the problem.

Until there is some authorative form of policing to exclude bling wearers, some old veterans will continue to wear 2, 4, 6 and even 10 unofficial commemoratives at armed forces day remembrance day and other veterans parades. In fact it is my opinion many old vets wear bling like this vet http://www.anzmi.net/ just out of enjoyment to get up the noses of the establishment so as to attract attention to have someone say something to him so he can tell you to f@ck off and stick your medal wearing rules up your ar*se.

I attending WW2 60th anniversary parade in 2006 and this vet had two rows of five medals. He had two BEM's and numerous other campaign medals. I said to him "were did you get all those medals"he replied " I bought them out of the pawn shop for a tenner 30 years ago".

Originally Posted by DarkBlueLoggie

[Bevin Boys Badge

Go on, enlighten me - the Bevin Boys???

Originally Posted by AFA06

Originally Posted by DarkBlueLoggie

[Bevin Boys Badge

Go on, enlighten me - the Bevin Boys???

Bevin Boys

I have not read all of this thread although I understand it's point, I spent quite a few years in BAOR sitting in a slit trench in the middle of winter freezing my butt off, while we exercised fighting the red hoards coming over the horizon, surely that deserves bit of tin. :D only joking people, I could not care less.

I would like to point out that as a veteran of the Cold War, Northern Ireland and both Balkans Campaigns I have total respect for the 'younger generation' and the work they are doing in Afghan.

I have worked in Afghan as a contractor (no - not a PSD) and a bunch of other conflict/post-conflict zones since I left the mob. I am not claiming to be any kind of expert or even to have a strong opinion either way about this debate over the NDM, but my Cold War service WAS operational - I did the same job in peace as I would in war. However, I do not seek a medal for it.

I am very dissapointed at the level this site has descended to - slagging one another off and resorting to mindless insults based on nothing other than massive ego's and prejudice.

Have more respect for one another guys. We all did our bit in different ways.

Originally Posted by Illuminatus

but my Cold War service WAS operational - I did the same job in peace as I would in war.

Almost every Soldier can say that. I would fix helicopters if people were shooting at me or not. An Infanteer would be sitting in a trench whether being shot at or not. A Signaller would be using a radio whether being shot at or not.

I don't see why a lot of people who seem in favour of the NDM feel they were in significantly more danger during the Cold War than any civilian who lived in Germany, or indeed a resident of the UK - those H Bombs didn't discriminate against you if you were wearing DPM.

I agree that people in the Army did have their day-to-day lives affected more - exercises, Active Edge etc etc, but the people who joined up after National Service knew what their terms of service were, were pad for their job, and received the X Factor and the financial benefits of serving in BAOR.

Is that inconvenience enough to justify a medal? I don't agree.

Originally Posted by JohnF

Course it is tack, spend money on Military Vets, the government????

SPEND money? I get a nice shiny enamel badge from HMG telling me I am an HMF veteran, then I discover the pension I'd been expecting at age 55 next year has been put back five years to age 60. The friggin' badge has COST me five years' pension for crying out loud.

Originally Posted by AlienFTM

then I discover the pension I'd been expecting at age 55 next year has been put back five years to age 60.

Does this mean immediate 22 year pensions will not go indexed linked until the age of 60?

Actually, I would have thought that if someone was shooting at you, you would be on your belly shooting back. Maybe I am wrong.

Also I did not imply (or at least I don't think I did) and certainly didnt say that I felt that I was in more danger than the German population in the Cold War. You should try and avoid putting words into people's mouths.

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Originally Posted by AlienFTM

then I discover the pension I'd been expecting at age 55 next year has been put back five years to age 60.

Does this mean immediate 22 year pensions will not go indexed linked until the age of 60?

for those on AFPS 75 Pension Increases can be viewed @

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/pens...multiplier.xls

All you need to know is your full pension and date of discharge :D

There are a couple of problems with "if you want a medal do an op and earn it"
1.I know of a TA soldier who rcvd an Iraq medal despite being several hundred miles away working as a hospital ward cleaner (NOT you will note a nurse).
3. My son is combat Infantry in Afghanistan, but the female company clerk who by definition is not allowed in combat gets a medal (albeit without the "combat rossette")
2. I did footsies in NI, where then my rossette to pin through my GSM ?
3. Its now safe I think to say that much as Dads Army provbided cover for some very highly trained resistance specialists, not all who served in BAOR were just biding time.

Bevin Boys
these were men who were conscripted for national service but then sent to work in coal mines.
It was a dangerous job, casualties were high, but they received no recognition at all at the end of their service.

Originally Posted by goldfinger

3. My son is combat Infantry in Afghanistan, but the female company clerk who by definition is not allowed in combat gets a medal (albeit without the "combat rossette")
2. I did footsies in NI, where then my rossette to pin through my GSM ?

There is no such thing as a "combat rosette". The rosette that comes with the OSM Afghanistan is to be worn on the ribbon to denote the clasp 'Afghanistan' on the riband as some medals are issued without the clasp (personnel supporting ops from outside the theatre during the outset of the war mostly).

As a combat infantryman in a patrol base in Sangin I received the exact same Afghanistan medal as all the support troops in Camp Bastion. That's just the way it is. The level of ignorance and misinformation about this medal and its rosette and clasp throughout the Army is astounding though.

Written out in black and white here: OSM Afghanistan