ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by Iolis

United Kingdom nationals of Libyan descent were a regular feature on Sky News during the conflict. Many had left their jobs and their studies to return to Libya over the Summer to take part in the process of liberating their country. Yet, the media in the UK have ignored what has happened to them on their return to the UK.

There is little doubt that those United Kingdom Nationals on operational deployment deserve the medal. English law has thrown up a paradox in the sense that United Kingdom nationals who are not members of HM Forces who participated in the same operation to achieve the same outcome have engaged in acts of 'terrorism'.

This comes about by virtue of Section 1 Terrorism Act 2000 which broadly defines 'acts of terrorism' and applies it to those who engage in it abroad. This together with section 40(2) confers upon them for all time, the legal status of 'terrorist' in UK domestic law.

Thus, the Libyan conflict throws up a complete absurdity in the following hypothetical scenario. The chap from Manchester serving with special forces acting as FAC passing a grid reference to a Tornado Aircraft supplied to him by a civilian student from Manchester who's mother and father were killed by Gadaffi while he was a student in England results in two very different outcomes for each man. The chap in Special Forces is awarded a medal while the Manchester student is arrested at Heathrow on his return and faces a maximum penalty of ten years imprisonment and a 'control order' on his release!

Yet another issue our so-called 'free Press' have decided to ignore!

Is this a "hypothetical" situation you have thought up? Or something you know to have happened? Don't think anyone is in the slightest bit interested in arresting Libyans, besides there's no way to prove it.

Unfortunately you are not correct. I'm sure that no-one here is interested in arresting Libyan nationals - except of course the British Government who arrested and subjected to a control order a Libyan national who belonged to a group whose purpose was the overthrow of the Gadaffi regime: R v F [2007] EWCA Crim 443 who is also, by virtue of section 1(1) and section 40(2) as interpreted by Collins J in CC v Commissioner of Police for the the Metropolis [2011] EWHC 3316 (Admin) a 'terrorist' and will remain so regardless of any conversion on the road to Damascus or change in personal circumstances. Moreover, British Nationals who were not, at the material time, members of the UK Armed Forces did take part in the fighting, several of whom confirmed their antecedents to television reporters on filmed interviews presently owned or controlled by the television companies who filmed them thus illustrating the complete idiocy of our current anti-terrorist legislation in which the rule of law has been substituted for prosecutorial discretion exercised within the boundaries of political expediency.

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Let me guess. The ribband will be blue with white stripes and with a NATO star on the medal itself! Why no Libya OSM? There was one for the Congo.

You're right mate, and where/when the hell's the Congo anyway?

Trouble is, with the new shite system for UK OSMs, there are only so many ribbon variations possible (only the outer 2 strips ever change).

I love my NATO Article 5 Medal, for cruising the Greek islands in the RN, because it looks like the Nile Medal of 1798.

Iolis: "United Kingdom nationals of Libyan descent were a regular feature on Sky News during the conflict. Many had left their jobs and their studies to return to Libya over the Summer to take part in the process of liberating their country."

Sorry, Iolis, if someone takes UK nationality Libya is NOT 'their country'.

Originally Posted by seaweed

Iolis: "United Kingdom nationals of Libyan descent were a regular feature on Sky News during the conflict. Many had left their jobs and their studies to return to Libya over the Summer to take part in the process of liberating their country."

Sorry, Iolis, if someone takes UK nationality Libya is NOT 'their country'.

A distinction without a difference in relation to those who left the United Kingdom to take part in activities falling within sections 1 and 40 Terrorism Act 2000 who upon their return are subject to the coercive jurisdiction of the United Kingdom Courts and face imprisonment for up to ten years.

"He is just one of the thousands of volunteers that the West is relying upon to break Gaddafi's stranglehold on his country. But, as the Standard witnessed as it joined them on the advance on Ajdabiyah, it is an army which is chronically under-trained, although fuelled by bravery and fervour."

To date, there is no indication that any United Kingdom National, or Libyan national living within the jurisdiction of the UK courts has been prosecuted for terrorists offences resulting from their activities in attempting to overthrow a sovereign government.

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Let me guess. The ribband will be blue with white stripes and with a NATO star on the medal itself! Why no Libya OSM? There was one for the Congo.

Well did you go and fight inside Libya??....if not, why would you get an OPERATION SERVICE Medal?? If you did, well good on you. But there are far too many people getting medals for doing nothing these days so I'm sure you kind of agree with the need to set criteria to at least try and prevent this.

Originally Posted by Lancer_in_Red

Well did you go and fight inside Libya??....if not, why would you get an OPERATION SERVICE Medal?? If you did, well good on you. But there are far too many people getting medals for doing nothing these days so I'm sure you kind of agree with the need to set criteria to at least try and prevent this.

OSM would be issued if it was a UK led operation, Libya was a NATO mission.

Originally Posted by blobmeister

OSM would be issued if it was a UK led operation, Libya was a NATO mission.

AFG is NATO led but we still give out an OSM?