So your answer is to arm security guards with tasers and clubs and allow them to use potentialy deadly force against shoplifters becasue you see terrorism, armed response incidents, and shoplifting as three scenarios requiring comparable uses of force?

Are you basing this on any sort of experience? Would you be comfortable tasering someone who you know was a simple shoplifter who you knew you could deal with without the use of any force? I wouldnt. And I dont know any officers who would. I've met a few violence obseessed clowns who would see it as a legitimate resposne though, whether they'd even know how to use a club let alone a taser is a different matter.

Originally Posted by martin7606

So your answer is to arm security guards with tasers and clubs and allow them to use potentialy deadly force against shoplifters becasue you see terrorism, armed response incidents, and shoplifting as three scenarios requiring comparable uses of force?

Are you basing this on any sort of experience? Would you be comfortable tasering someone who you know was a simple shoplifter who you knew you could deal with without the use of any force? I wouldnt. And I dont know any officers who would. I've met a few violence obseessed clowns who would see it as a legitimate resposne though, whether they'd even know how to use a club let alone a taser is a different matter.

Calm down, dear; it's just a commerical.

I was being sarcastic, because the precious, noone-else-can-do-our-job attitude of SOME(not all)police, lawyers etc grips my sh1t. The fact is that I would not trust many so-called criminal justice "professionals" to carry out security duties at Tesco on a bad Saturday night.

As for shoplifters, they are, without exception in my unfortunately extensive experiance, worthless scum. Many are junkies and will think nothing of trying to spit on, bite or stab some poor b@stard on minimum wage if they attempt to stop them stealing the price of their next fix.

I recall once having to restrain a "simple shoplifter" after he knocked out three of a police officer's teeth with a headbutt.

Tazor them? I'd strap them into Old Sparky and throw the switch myself, mate.

So you're a security guard?

All shoplifters are "scum"? I dont thinks thats accurate or fair at all, I've arrested plenty of shoplifters who have been misguided kids from good families, who have done something silly for equally silly reasons. They regret doing it and regret getting caught, they go on to never do it again. They are not all scum, to claim they are says something about your views. I agree the majority are junkies, many are violent, and as for assaulting a police officer - shoplifting will now be the least of their worries.

I have honestly never encountered a "no-one lese can do our job attitude" as you put it, I'm not saying it doesnt exist, just that I've never encountered it. Could you give an example of how such an attitude would be displayed and how it would manifest itself? Also could you explain other than a police officer who within the community should enforce law, investigate crime and deal with disorder?

I moonlighted as a security dog handler for a couple of years before leaving the army and I have to say that non of the scum I came across whilst patrolling some of the wild and wooly areas of east London were misguided kids from good families. However during the newspaper strikes I was very pleased, as you can imagine, when a motorcycle cop approached me, having idly stood by and watched several waves of flying pickets lobbing conrete blocks, bricks and steel reinforcing rod at us and told me that he would "nick me if he saw my dog bite anyone".

And thats enough of all this, a good thread is being hijacked. I must read through the first post again though when I have more time.

I dont think it's being hijcked as such. One of the many insightful points made by the O.P regarded suspects accepting police cautions for offences such as shoplifting, refusal to accept a caution, would usually result in the matter going to court. This has the obvious potential to result in a conviction and higher penalty. I think the O.P was commenting that many are chosing to accept a caution or are being encouraged to do so when the better course of action may be to proceed to trial. This is one of many points that he seems to be making. The thread started to get sidetracked, in my opinion, when Werewolf seemed to advocate security staff using tasers etc against shoplifters and I responded. Apologies if I have contributed to muddying the waters, I agree it's a good thread.

On a seperate note, you dont need me to tell you that the way you were spoken to was completely out of order. Either the bobby got it wrong on the day or he was just a nob. Regarding the shoplifters, it's usually when you get soemone down the station and in front of their old man or mum, that they drop the pretence and start blubbing.

against the real scum civil recovery is pointless as much point as sending the bill to argentina for mine cleared in FI no cash. (not strictly true any cash they have is only resting briefly before heading to a dealer)
Slightly dodgy cases petrol station worker till down £8 at the end of a shift sacked on spot then hit for a crs of £1500 . teenage girl accused of being with mates who nicked with demand for £750 etc etc

always very suspsious of these outfits after federation of soft wear theft came after a small charity I was a director demanded cash up front and they'd give us 6 months to get legal. former finance worker had walked off with licenses and then set them on us
There bullies who rely on people being too weak or scared to take them on
When Microsoft UK read in the guradian some small charity was being threated with court by its minions rather than risk a mclibel sorted it out without lawyers. Which annoyed some of the Directors threating to sue people who have no assets really really bad idea

Originally Posted by martin7606

So you're a security guard?

All shoplifters are "scum"? I dont thinks thats accurate or fair at all, I've arrested plenty of shoplifters who have been misguided kids from good families, who have done something silly for equally silly reasons. They regret doing it and regret getting caught, they go on to never do it again. They are not all scum, to claim they are says something about your views. I agree the majority are junkies, many are violent, and as for assaulting a police officer - shoplifting will now be the least of their worries.

I have honestly never encountered a "no-one lese can do our job attitude" as you put it, I'm not saying it doesnt exist, just that I've never encountered it. Could you give an example of how such an attitude would be displayed and how it would manifest itself? Also could you explain other than a police officer who within the community should enforce law, investigate crime and deal with disorder?

Nope, just a poor bloody shelf-stacker. I am sometimes called on to help the security guards - and in the instance I was referring to a police officer -because I look like the mutant offspring of a Prop Forward and a Rottweiler.

Of course I'm not talking about some dumb kid who's nicked a packet of sweets. I'm referring to junkies and professional teams who nick thousands of pounds worth of stock every week. They are parasitical scum, untermench who live off decent people. And they should be removed from society. By any means necessary.

As to your question about private firms doing police work: Blackwater or whatever it's calling itself this week run their own private army and air force. So a private police force is only a matter of time, wether the police like it or not.

Remember that in the States many security firms have powers up to and including the use of lethal force.

Nuff said then.

Originally Posted by eodmatt

Nuff said then.

You are Stan Lee and I claim my £10! :D

Damn, outed again