Hahaha I like your thinking there JB ;)

Shame the human rights activists would throw their teddies though :(

Originally Posted by kes1

Spot on there Speedy, so taking the much maligned National Service idea away...what could be done to instil discipline and good old fashioned values and common curtesy into todays teenagers?

a good beasting would do the trick

Originally Posted by speedybham

isn't it all about respect and knowing your valued in society?

if there is no respect for authority and a person feels they have no value in society what hope is there?
I think thats where people think national service would help, there is nothin wrong with abit of discipline, only the rules have now been made very difficult to enforce.

From what I can see it tends to be the kids that don't have a clue about what they are doing or where they are going in life that turn out to be trouble, added to that a parents with little idea of reasonabilities and the problems get bigger, within a few years little jimmy will get locked up, whilse he's inside he gets a BTEC in Car Crime and Drug Dealing.... when they get out they are ready to start the whole process all over again with the next generation of youth...

Couldn't agree more. I think the ACF / other cadets could greatly benefit a lot of the youth of today. However, that will only work in my view if society as a whole displays a lot more respect for authority, self-discipline, and individuals are prepared to accept much greater personal responsibility for their actions, and more importantly, the consequences of those actions if they break the law of the land. In turn, of course, those consequences need to be a bit more than "oooowh, haven't you been naughty. Run along though, we'll forget about it this time." That way, kids going to cadets will more readily accept an appropriate level of discipline and display some responsibility when necessary.

Inevitably, that process starts with parents and schools. In my view though, it should also be broadened to sports, and in particular, top-flight football in this country. It doesn't exactly take a lip reader to tell what a football player is saying to a referee, even while he's being booked for something. Usually it's "WTF? You're f***king joking ref. F**k off you tw@t"" etc etc. Those players are idolised by schoolkids who see that week in, week out, and think "well, he's on 45 grand a week and he tells the ref to f**k off all the time" - so what chance has the teacher at school / copper in the street got of attaining any level of respect? I remember my old girl telling me that she got the cane one day at school from the headmaster and went home crying to my Gran. My Gran asked her why she was crying. "Because the headmaster gave me the cane" was my mum's reply. "Well," said my Gran, "You must have deserved it then". That headmaster would be doing a 3 to 5 year stretch for assault these days.

So, back on topic. Yep, agree the ACF could greatly benefit the youth of today - but only those who already have / are prepared to accept some self-discipline.

And you'd make them obey how Speedy? Thats my point in all this - if someone doesn't want to do something then how do you make them?!


"6 mile run, GO!"

"Fcuk off"


Bring back flogging!!

Originally Posted by Dr_Nick_Riviera

Originally Posted by speedybham

isn't it all about respect and knowing your valued in society?

if there is no respect for authority and a person feels they have no value in society what hope is there?
I think thats where people think national service would help, there is nothin wrong with abit of discipline, only the rules have now been made very difficult to enforce.

From what I can see it tends to be the kids that don't have a clue about what they are doing or where they are going in life that turn out to be trouble, added to that a parents with little idea of reasonabilities and the problems get bigger, within a few years little jimmy will get locked up, whilse he's inside he gets a BTEC in Car Crime and Drug Dealing.... when they get out they are ready to start the whole process all over again with the next generation of youth...

Couldn't agree more. I think the ACF / other cadets could greatly benefit a lot of the youth of today. However, that will only work in my view if society as a whole displays a lot more respect for authority, self-discipline, and individuals are prepared to accept much greater personal responsibility for their actions, and more importantly, the consequences of those actions if they break the law of the land. In turn, of course, those consequences need to be a bit more than "oooowh, haven't you been naughty. Run along though, we'll forget about it this time." That way, kids going to cadets will more readily accept an appropriate level of discipline and display some responsibility when necessary.

Inevitably, that process starts with parents and schools. In my view though, it should also be broadened to sports, and in particular, top-flight football in this country. It doesn't exactly take a lip reader to tell what a football player is saying to a referee, even while he's being booked for something. Usually it's "WTF? You're f***king joking ref. F**k off you tw@t"" etc etc. Those players are idolised by schoolkids who see that week in, week out, and think "well, he's on 45 grand a week and he tells the ref to f**k off all the time" - so what chance has the teacher at school / copper in the street got of attaining any level of respect? I remember my old girl telling me that she got the cane one day at school from the headmaster and went home crying to my Gran. My Gran asked her why she was crying. "Because the headmaster gave me the cane" was my mum's reply. "Well," said my Gran, "You must have deserved it then". That headmaster would be doing a 3 to 5 year stretch for assault these days.

So, back on topic. Yep, agree the ACF could greatly benefit the youth of today - but only those who already have / are prepared to accept some self-discipline.

Couldn't agree more. As I said earlier, by making joining mandatory the risk is that those kids who join by choice will have their training disrupted and enjoyment ruined by those forced to attend.

Originally Posted by Dr_Nick_Riviera

Couldn't agree more. I think the ACF / other cadets could greatly benefit a lot of the youth of today.

So, back on topic. Yep, agree the ACF could greatly benefit the youth of today - but only those who already have / are prepared to accept some self-discipline.

At 16 I was a probably one of the little $hits some of you refer too, and i talk about this havin gone though all of the above. I joined TA at 21, to date none of my mates understood how i could stand there and have someone shouting down my earholes without giving them a good dig. The fact was i resepected these people, these guys were different.

The ACF could help alot of kids out, after all they are a youth organisation, they just don't seem to have any kind of presence locally, and i could understand they might not have the money avalible. But some of the attitudes i've seen from of both cadets and adult instructors might put anyone off these kids from joining. Kids don't want tonnes of comitment they just want abit of fun. I've even thought about looking into being an adult instructor with the ACF, however that idea got binned when i decided to go back into the TA.

I think everyone may need to adjust their opinions, yes they can be little $hits, but have they got the best deal?

I'm not soft, far from it, i would call myself fair.

Originally Posted by kes1

And you'd make them obey how Speedy? Thats my point in all this - if someone doesn't want to do something then how do you make them?!

how do you make them do it....

because they aspire to do it, they want to do it, they want to be the best, they want to complete it in under x min, they are challenged

fuck me, even im startin to believe this $hite :o

Originally Posted by speedybham

Originally Posted by kes1

And you'd make them obey how Speedy? Thats my point in all this - if someone doesn't want to do something then how do you make them?!

how do you make them do it....

because they aspire to do it, they want to do it, they want to be the best, they want to complete it in under x min, they are challenged

* me, even im startin to believe this $hite :o

And for those lazy little buggers who would rather be hanging out in the local bus stop drinking cider and smoking whatever they can lay their hands on?

Sorry if I sound negative here but there are some that are just lost causes and nothing that is actually allowed in this day and age will have any effect on them until they decide they want to change...if they ever do reach that point.

Some would say hit them where it hurts, their pocket, but that would just drive to robbing and mugging auld folk.
As for the gubmint idea to keep them at school til they are 18, yeah right, that is going to work sherlock, they already get money offered to stay on, how many actually do?
It is the chavs and chavesses that don't bother going to school, end up hanging around the streets, round them up and get tehm to do some manual labour for the good of the community and if they don't bugger off reward them, if they do chain them together.

I was one of those 'lazy little buggers' who did hang out, think it was the park as i recall, drinking stella not cider and may be we were smoking whatever we could lay our hands on, but i wasn't because i was lazy, we had nothin else to do (but that was a long time ago) there was no youth club and the play station hadn't yet been invented and none of us were into playing snakes and ladders so we did our own thing...

I really do believe i would of enjoyed something like the ACF back then but i didn't know about it, hence it wasn't an option. There wont be a one fit solution for all but im sure it would fit some of us.

I say again im not soft, but i wouldn't be chaining them all up together doing community work (at least not all of them). I dont think enough people try and reach out to these guys and girls, and try and introduce them to other activites other than drinkin, smoking and drugs.

Is there anyone from an ACF background in here? whats their opinions about the bus stop crew??