ARmy Rumour SErvice

I'm pleased this thread has sparked some debate. It's interesting to see different people's points of view. My own view is that there is a requirement for the UK population to provide personnel in support of the regular army in today's environment of high-tempo expeditionary Ops.

Whether that manpower is provided as formed units or IRs is an emotional subject for the TA Officer/SNCO. My view on formed units is this:
1. It's good for the moral of the TA officer/SNCO, but not top of the agenda for the TA junior rank.
2. Many TA SNCO and Officers don't have the experience or depth of knowledge to perform their role adequately as a stand-alone sub-unit (although, undeniably, some people do they don't represent the majority in the TA officers/Sgts mess).

If you ask the regulars, they would rather have IRs because it is easier to support someone with limited skills/experience when they are surrounded by those who are experienced. The fact is that TA peeps can't contribute the time to maintain the skills to the same level that their regular counterparts can. This is the view of my last Bde Comd, who is a fairly experience and intelligent bloke.

Once we've made the decision that IRs are the preferred option over formed sub-units (and many senior officers have come to that conclusion) comes the question of where do we find these IRs and what is the most economical means of employing them. The army really only needs these IRs for the duration of the tour, and money spent on reserves that aren't used is inefficient. The 14 Week CIC + 8 Week OPTAG engagement is infantry-specific, but it can equally be applied to other trades. This is far more cost-effective than the TA soldier, as MSR says the TA costs £750m p.a. to generate 1500 reservists for Ops- that seems fairly pricey.

My own opinion is that it couldn't replace the TA because we would be unable to have generated the force required for TELIC 1 at such short notice without the TA. But who says we need all 40,000 of them?

If a TA soldier has been given ample opportunity to deploy in the past 5 years but has failed to do so, do we need him/her? If they've had the opportunity and haven't taken it in the last 5 years are they ever likely to take that opportunity? And is it worth paying for them?

As regards the TA being required for defence of the British isles- I don't think the UK is likely to come under threat of invasion as it did in 1940.
If you want to talk about the CCRF role, it should be noted that regular units are the preferred option to call out in cases of heightened threat levels, e.g. Posh Cav deploying to Heathrow Airport.
In times of natural disasters it's the regulars who're called out- e.g. the recent flooding. Yes some TA units contributed, but not on a scale anything like the regular contribution.

Also, if we're only going to deploy IRs, (and the majority of them will be junior ranks) how much do we need TA SNCOs and Officers?

So maybe my question should be revised to "How much of the TA do we really need?"

Ta needs all types to maintain the unit or otherwise the army dosent get any irs imho .Of course its down to units to decide if people are dead wood or not .

Originally Posted by ferry_loon

Duke,

Regarding point 5, I believe that this is the RMRs function also (to RM not Para), and has been for the last 25 years, at least.

I recently attended an open day with a RAF Reserves unit. Their line was roughly," we are a service heavily engaged in Ops. If you don't want to be part of that involement then don't join! In fact if you are a full time student, single parent or look after an elderly relativew are not interested."

FL

remind whose side are they on again ?

@ MSR
You have done your bit, and if you are still in then you provide valuable knowledge and something to aspire to/be proud of for the new blood.

We have many new recruits coming through the door at present. The first thing they see is the % of those in the unit who have been on tour. It is drummed in that you will probably go on tour. The seniors have told us if you don't go or at least attempt it, hand in your kit and leave.

I really for the life of me can't think how someone who hasn't done ANY tours can tip up on weekends, with 5 Utility pouches on their webbing and all the gucci kit and not have put into practice skills they have been paid for all this time. I may be simplistic on this but I can't help it.

@Polar have you been on an op tour?

Originally Posted by Maximillian

I really for the life of me can't think how someone who hasn't done ANY tours can tip up on weekends, with 5 Utility pouches on their webbing and all the gucci kit and not have put into practice skills they have been paid for all this time. I may be simplistic on this but I can't help it.

@Polar have you been on an op tour?

No, but I've delivered ICS support to nearly every op for the last 10+ years. Going on ops to get paid more (well less), enhance my chances of promotion or experience the craic, ain't my thing.

Chibbers

It looks like we need the toms with the very best NCO's to guide and train on the Tues/Wed/weekends. There isn't much scope for the seniors to go away (they do try and succeed in our unit though) and those NCO's with op experience have credibility and form the backbone of the unit. So in short we need the very best. I have met some outstanding instructors, they exist and inspire those around them to go on and do what we are ultimately paid for.

@Polar
Fair enough. I couldn't wear the uniform and do the weekends knowing unit members have gone, TA soldiers have been maimed, killed and injured whilst I sit back and play about. Thats just me.

once is probably enough but once at the very least

Originally Posted by "polar

IMHO you want to play soldiers and implement US foreign policy, sorry I'm on the front line of UK defence.

So are you saying you're on some kind of covert CT Op around Leeds?

And WTF do you mean by Playing Soldiers??