ARmy Rumour SErvice

**Bikini_Black** · 12-03-2008, 17:57

Originally Posted by The_Duke

Originally Posted by Bikini_Black

I think this whole thread is missing the point somewhat by breaking down the TA into percentages that have deployed on op's and such.

The clue is in the title, "Territorial Army", which literally signifies a reserve force whose role is to provide support to UK operations, as opposed to expeditionary forces.

Think about it, do you really think the majority of TA soldiers join to go on expeditionary operations? because if you do, then you ought to ask yourself whether you really understand the role of the TA at all.
The vast majority of the TA will never be tasked in an expeditionary role, that's what the regular army is trained for.

BB.

B_B,

The vast majority of those joining the TA at the moment join to go on operations, or at least very aware that there may be a requirement to go on operations. The vast majority of them serve for the "standard" TA time of 3 years or less, and many get an Op tour in during that time.

The main advocates of the "home defence" tend to be those who joined before the main mobilisation rush of 2003 (and in some cases prior to that for specialist units). They (and this includes me) were raised in an era of defending against the 3rd Shock army on the IGB, and defending the British shores. These ones tend to be the officers/SNCOs who may or may not have the opportunity to do a tour.

The rights and wrongs of mobilisation, IRs vs formed units etc has been discussed ad nauseum, but it is more than a little arrogant to assume that those who believe that people join the TA to go on expeditionary Ops don't know the role of the TA.

TA mission statement: "To contribute to the UK's military capability, both deployed overseas and in the UK, whilst maintaining links with society ..."

My post was not intended to look arrogant, though I see it may have been interpreted that way.

Allow me to clarify:

First off, Which is it? Vast majority joining to go on operations, or "at the least very aware", blah blah.

That is a ridiculous statement, which quite frankly means nothing.

I'm not seeing any logical or statistical reasoning relating to your rebuttal of my post.

The statistics make it quite plain that the "vast majority" (as you put it) are indeed tasked with UK operations, as "at 31 dec 2007 the actual trained strength of the TA is 21,069 persons" of which only "3084 are currently on operational tours".

From these figures, it is trivial to deduce that only some 14% of the total strength of the TA is actually on ops at the current time, which I'm sure will make depressing reading for the "vast majority" you speak of, especially when one takes into consideration the fact that only 14,000 TA have been involved in operations since 2003! (six whole years) although this reads initially as 66% of the TA have been on op's, this figure takes no account of those having joined or left the TA since 2003, which im sure is quite a few!

I think those persons joining the TA specifically to undertake an operational tour would clearly be best advised to join the regular army if they REALLY wanted to go!

(All stats quoted from Lords/Hansard Text)

BB

**Bikini_Black** · 12-03-2008, 18:04

Oh, and by the way, Hansard also states that the TOTAL cost of the TA Reserve is a MEAGRE 1.5% of the ENTIRE defence budget!

Which means you could cut the whole TA off without a penny and not even notice a difference in economic terms!

(Hmm, is that 100 pennies in my pocket, or 99? I just can't tell!)

BB

**Bravo_Bravo** · 12-03-2008, 18:06

Originally Posted by Chibber

Originally Posted by Mr_McKay

Love it.

I notice that some on this thread are trying to drive a wedge between senior ranks and ORs, on the basis that one lot has deployed and one lot has not. B*ll*cks. I'm a SNCO, I've completed 27 months mobilised service in the last four years

...Snip...

Get a job.

He has two, one TA, one full-time. I do hope you have ocassion to meet him in his full-time capacity. You would be very, very sorry.

:D

**tiger stacker** · 12-03-2008, 18:07

Chibber I have came to the conclusion that you are a Charlie Uncle November Tango away and take a flying feck......

I know of at least 14 Sncos who have all gone on ops in the last 5 years they all volunteered, the number of junior ranks is much higher while the ones who did not go are still there providing training for those who stayed and kept our TA unit alive. The Ta is there for everyone to join, who wants to go on ops are asked not forced or shamed by white feathers or ignored.

**msr** · 12-03-2008, 18:16

Originally Posted by Bravo_Bravo

Originally Posted by Chibber

Originally Posted by Mr_McKay

Love it.

I notice that some on this thread are trying to drive a wedge between senior ranks and ORs, on the basis that one lot has deployed and one lot has not. B*ll*cks. I'm a SNCO, I've completed 27 months mobilised service in the last four years

...Snip...

Get a job.

He has two, one TA, one full-time. I do hope you have ocassion to meet him in his full-time capacity. You would be very, very sorry.

:D

Why? Is he an undertaker?

MSR

**The_Duke** · 12-03-2008, 19:51

Originally Posted by Bikini_Black

Originally Posted by The_Duke

Originally Posted by Bikini_Black

I think this whole thread is missing the point somewhat by breaking down the TA into percentages that have deployed on op's and such.

The clue is in the title, "Territorial Army", which literally signifies a reserve force whose role is to provide support to UK operations, as opposed to expeditionary forces.

Think about it, do you really think the majority of TA soldiers join to go on expeditionary operations? because if you do, then you ought to ask yourself whether you really understand the role of the TA at all.
The vast majority of the TA will never be tasked in an expeditionary role, that's what the regular army is trained for.

BB.

B_B,

The vast majority of those joining the TA at the moment join to go on operations, or at least very aware that there may be a requirement to go on operations. The vast majority of them serve for the "standard" TA time of 3 years or less, and many get an Op tour in during that time.

The main advocates of the "home defence" tend to be those who joined before the main mobilisation rush of 2003 (and in some cases prior to that for specialist units). They (and this includes me) were raised in an era of defending against the 3rd Shock army on the IGB, and defending the British shores. These ones tend to be the officers/SNCOs who may or may not have the opportunity to do a tour.

The rights and wrongs of mobilisation, IRs vs formed units etc has been discussed ad nauseum, but it is more than a little arrogant to assume that those who believe that people join the TA to go on expeditionary Ops don't know the role of the TA.

TA mission statement: "To contribute to the UK's military capability, both deployed overseas and in the UK, whilst maintaining links with society ..."

My post was not intended to look arrogant, though I see it may have been interpreted that way.

Allow me to clarify:

First off, Which is it? Vast majority joining to go on operations, or "at the least very aware", blah blah.

That is a ridiculous statement, which quite frankly means nothing.

I'm not seeing any logical or statistical reasoning relating to your rebuttal of my post.

The statistics make it quite plain that the "vast majority" (as you put it) are indeed tasked with UK operations, as "at 31 dec 2007 the actual trained strength of the TA is 21,069 persons" of which only "3084 are currently on operational tours".
From these figures, it is trivial to deduce that only some 14% of the total strength of the TA is actually on ops at the current time, which I'm sure will make depressing reading for the "vast majority" you speak of, especially when one takes into consideration the fact that only 14,000 TA have been involved in operations since 2003! (six whole years) although this reads initially as 66% of the TA have been on op's, this figure takes no account of those having joined or left the TA since 2003, which im sure is quite a few!

I think those persons joining the TA specifically to undertake an operational tour would clearly be best advised to join the regular army if they REALLY wanted to go!

(All stats quoted from Lords/Hansard Text)

BB

With a basic grasp of the English language, it is not hard to understand. Some join with the specific (in some cases sole) intention of deploying, and as soon as possible. Others may not be joining purely to go on Ops, but know that it is highly likely, and so join with that in mind. Anyone who joins a unit (other than one which is purely UK ops roled) will be made aware of the mobilisation issue. No-one who joins post 2003 should be surprised when the requirement to meet the unit commitment under the OCP gets mentioned.

As for your attempt to use statistics, 3084 x 2 = 6168 (at any one time x 2 for 6 month tour rotation) So out of the 21,069 trained TA personnel, 29.28% (to 2 decimal places) are deployed in any given year. Better?

Wanting to go on operations does not automatically mean that a person should join the regular army. Some people want the opportunity to go on tour when and as it suits them, but without giving up the freedom to chose.

Edited to remove ad hominem.

**merlin162** · 12-03-2008, 19:54

On the issue of white feathers, most of the boys in our unit all agree with what happened prior to Telic, those that didn't want to go left without any recriminations, although some other Coys had a few who have stayed in after refusing the call out. Though they may have perfectly valid reasons.

One member of the Regiment (who shall remain nameless) received a white feather from members of his platoon and resigned his job and got mobilised within the week.... (although it was more of a joke than a serious comment).

Our Battalion now awaits another mobilisation for Herrick before the end of the year.

**polar** · 12-03-2008, 20:08

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**polar** · 12-03-2008, 20:16

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**RP578** · 12-03-2008, 23:22

Originally Posted by Bikini_Black

I think those persons joining the TA specifically to undertake an operational tour would clearly be best advised to join the regular army if they REALLY wanted to go!

I say again:

Originally Posted by RP578

Originally Posted by msr

I am afraid I disagree: if you want multiple op tours, go regular.

MSR

Why on earth should they? It's easier to go on multiple tours of your choice as a TA soldier than as a regular tied to his battalion posting. Many would prefer to do their tours without the one-two years of stagging-on in the UK/BFG.

More to the point, how is someone who wants to do multiple tours bad for the TA? Surely in doing so, he's relieving someone less willing of any obligation.

Indeed I'll go further. I have met several regulars infantrymen in Iraq who were signing off to avoid the "barrack room bullsh*t", but had stated an interest in joining the TA specifically because it would be a better way to pick and choose when to go on tour.