Vote Dr Evil!!!

If he's PM'd you get ur units details down, currently the North of England only has Signals and Yeomanry units (and one of the Signals regiments advises people to join the other one .... don't know who did that ..... honest)

Originally Posted by Dr_Evil

You're a potential recruit who knows nothing about the military. How did you already have the Army's URL as step 1?

Are you for real? Have you ever tried typing "British Army" into a search engine? Believe it or not, www.army.mod.uk ain't that hard to find!

Originally Posted by Dr Evil

"Contact us" is, to most web users, the click of last resort if all else fails. We want to make it as easy as possible for potential joiners to FIND OUT about local units BEFORE they personally contact anyone: ie, make it a similar experience to shopping around for a holiday or insurance. People want to be armed with info BEFORE they are faced with a salesman.

I have to disagree there I am afraid. I use 'Contact Us' when I want to contact someone! Not as a "last resort". If potential joiners (I assume you mean potential recruits) wish to find out what Army life (be it regular or territorial) is all about then the website contains content on many different aspects and available trades. We are talking about joining the military here... not buying a week in Tenerife!

Originally Posted by Dr Evil

And by the way, the postcode search function doesn't work for my old home address and my unit - not sure if it is similarly broken for others.

All I can suggest is that your unit isn't important enough to be listed. (Only kidding!!)

Originally Posted by Bushnut

The other option of course is for Joe Public to pick up a telephone and ring the phone number integrated into the logo?

Originally Posted by Dr Evil

See above, re salesman.

The Army shouldn't need selling to people who come through the door. It should be explained to them, and ultimately left in their hands whether it is for them or not. If you persuade someone to join, when they're not really into it, you are likely to encounter problems down the line!

Originally Posted by Bushnut

Originally Posted by Dr_Evil

You're a potential recruit who knows nothing about the military. How did you already have the Army's URL as step 1?

Are you for real? Have you ever tried typing "British Army" into a search engine? Believe it or not, www.army.mod.uk ain't that hard to find!

You're missing my point. I've pointed out how the old site enabled a potential recruit to go from Google to info about his local units in three steps. The new one takes six steps. I'm not saying it's difficult, just less slick than it used to be. This is the sort of thing that puts potential recruits off.

Here's an analogy. Say your old rifle takes three steps to go from loaded to ready. They bring in a new one which takes six steps. The number of steps it takes is important. It's a reasonable criticism to say that the new one is worse than the old in that respect, even if the actual steps are no more difficult than before.

Originally Posted by Bushnut

Originally Posted by Dr Evil

"Contact us" is, to most web users, the click of last resort if all else fails.

I have to disagree there I am afraid. I use 'Contact Us' when I want to contact someone! Not as a "last resort".

I don't mind holding a different opinion to yours - but mine is probably right. I'm not a marketing professional or a website designer but I have been advised by loads of both. They say that a good website gives people the info they seek in the body of the website. "Contact us" is the residual route.

Originally Posted by Bushnut

If potential joiners (I assume you mean potential recruits) wish to find out what Army life (be it regular or territorial) is all about then the website contains content on many different aspects and available trades.

Yes but that website is very, very badly designed. For a detailed critique, see here.

Originally Posted by Bushnut

We are talking about joining the military here... not buying a week in Tenerife!

Quite right. But people are used to being able to find out information about any job (or hotel, or car) without necessarily having to put themselves in front of a salesman (or spokesman, or if you prefer human being). They want to build up their own picture, as free as possible of bias.

Originally Posted by Bushnut

The Army shouldn't need selling to people who come through the door. It should be explained to them, and ultimately left in their hands whether it is for them or not. If you persuade someone to join, when they're not really into it, you are likely to encounter problems down the line!

Even if the Army recruiter gives a completely unbiased account of the merits of Army life and of the various roles and unit and of the potential recruit's suitability (a set of three massive ifs), many potential recruits will assume that there will be some element of bias in at least some of that information.

When faced with a really big decision like this, people want to be able to find out as much as possible before they take concrete steps, especially if they are contemplating joining an institution which is portrayed in public as being a tad insensitive as to potential recruits' own employment objectives.

Look, the proof of the pudding is in the pattern of traffic on the Just TA forum. Prior to 1 April 2007, we only very rarely had people asking "What are the TA units near me?" Since that date we have had four or five. So clearly that info is being sought by people and they cannot find it other than by throwing themselves on the mercies of this site.

I think - but haven't checked - that we've also had an upswing in the number of enquiries asking "Which is better, X or Y unit?" That info, or at least some guidance, used to be easier to access.

In my opinion, the issue is the difference between the recruiting of the Regular Army and the TA. The Regulars are keen to get you into the trade that you want (perhaps the ACIO can "encourage" you to change to the trade that the Army needs), whereas the TA has a limited number of trades within your home area.

In essence, the Regulars (who are the owners of the "One Army Concept") recruit nationally, whereas the TA (Independent, that is) recruits locally. Although I'm a member of a nationally-recruited unit, I started as an Independent, as did many of my colleagues, and view Independents as a starting point to almost any career within the Territorials.

The armyjobs website appears biased (though I honestly doubt that it was specifically intended to) towards the idea that if you want a particular trade and it's not available in your area, then join the Regulars. In the process, a lot of people who may want to join the TA, seeing that they're "not particularly suited" to their local unit, may just give up.

I'll be despised for saying this, but the TA is not a career. It's a club. You do it because you enjoy the company. The military side is a means to an end. You put up with the BS because that's the condition of membership. You strive for excellence because the military doctrine encourages competitiveness. You develop a sense of responsibility, of loyalty and you become a part of a coordinated machine. That machine is the "One Army." To try to unify the recruiting process is, to me, a flawed concept.

Like it or not, Britain has two armies. They need to recruit differently. They need to train differently. But on completion of training, the TA should complement the Regulars. In some fields, such as that practiced by the Independent TA, the trained soldier should be interoperable with the Regular soldier. In the Specialist units, the TA soldier should have skills that are not readily available (or are more frequently practiced) to the Regular. When they combine, in times of conflict, they become "One Army."

Originally Posted by putteesinmyhands

In my opinion, the issue is the difference between the recruiting of the Regular Army and the TA. The Regulars are keen to get you into the trade that you want (perhaps the ACIO can "encourage" you to change to the trade that the Army needs), whereas the TA has a limited number of trades within your home area.

In essence, the Regulars (who are the owners of the "One Army Concept") recruit nationally, whereas the TA (Independent, that is) recruits locally. Although I'm a member of a nationally-recruited unit, I started as an Independent, as did many of my colleagues, and view Independents as a starting point to almost any career within the Territorials.

The armyjobs website appears biased (though I honestly doubt that it was specifically intended to) towards the idea that if you want a particular trade and it's not available in your area, then join the Regulars. In the process, a lot of people who may want to join the TA, seeing that they're "not particularly suited" to their local unit, may just give up.

I'll be despised for saying this, but the TA is not a career. It's a club. You do it because you enjoy the company. The military side is a means to an end. You put up with the BS because that's the condition of membership. You strive for excellence because the military doctrine encourages competitiveness. You develop a sense of responsibility, of loyalty and you become a part of a coordinated machine. That machine is the "One Army." To try to unify the recruiting process is, to me, a flawed concept.

Like it or not, Britain has two armies. They need to recruit differently. They need to train differently. But on completion of training, the TA should complement the Regulars. In some fields, such as that practiced by the Independent TA, the trained soldier should be interoperable with the Regular soldier. In the Specialist units, the TA soldier should have skills that are not readily available (or are more frequently practiced) to the Regular. When they combine, in times of conflict, they become "One Army."

Woo. What an excellent post. I vote for puteesinmyhands for the next CGS!!!

Yeah, it's pretty much perfect.

The bit about the TA being a club isn't quite necessary to the argument - I think it's possible to give other reasons for saying that the TA must recruit and train differently in order to fight alongside (and as part of) the One Army - and that the regular Army and MoD must accept this (if it wants a TA).

.... but maybe that is what the TA has been but is not what the Army or MOD want it to be now or in the future? Given how overstretched the Regular Army has become because of current commitments, or at least how overstretched it has been exposed as because of current commitments, is it possible that the Army and MOD are rethinking the TA's role? Recruitment under the current circumstances, I would have thought, would be attracting people with a view to be mobilised or certainly with the prospect being a more likelyhood than for the "1000s" of TA who have left because of Iraq/Afghanistan (according to the media).

If the talk of Afghanistan and Iraq being commitments for another decade is being taken seriously by the MOD then won't that affect the way they target the budget for training/recruitment etc for the TA if they see it as an interim solution for filling the Regular Army's shortfalls during periods of higher commitment? Personally, I think some form of National Service would be a better alternative option, a third way, rather than risking chucking the baby out with the bathwater by messing the current TA personel about so much that they vote with their feet.

The proof of the Dr Evil's point is in the impact on TA recruiting. He has seen a major downturn in enquiries from the web which he and others can attribute directly to the loss of the "TA Near You" function as the beauty of the web is that it is all trackable.

Out of interest, I would be interested to know if any TA unit has seen an increase in enquiries since the launch of the ArmyJobs website?

In particular, if they have seen a downturn in direct enquiries, has there been a compensatorial increase in indirect enquiries through the OAR central clearing system?

For anecdotal evidence:

Since the inception of OAR, my unit has not received a single potential recruit through the ACIOs who cover our area. Recruit enquiries have distinctly declined, and having spoken to new recruits who have managed to get it touch with us via other means (including our active recruiting) I have found out that at least 2 had been unable to find or make contact with us via the armyjobs site. This is not an acceptable state of affairs, and I beseech the CoC to remedy the problem with the armyjobs website immediately. (We don't want a bloody survey or a study, just get it shagging quick-fixed.)

Originally Posted by crivelli

Recruitment under the current circumstances, I would have thought, would be attracting people with a view to be mobilised or certainly with the prospect being a more likelyhood than for the "1000s" of TA who have left because of Iraq/Afghanistan (according to the media)..

Why? If you want an op tour, go regular. The TA is no longer a reserve.

MSR