Originally Posted by frenchie

Originally Posted by OnTheBus

Coincidentally, elemants of my Bn were called out last winter when the A30 down in Cornwall got blocked off by a freak blizzard, hundreds of cars stuck in snow. Mostly involved with giving out blankets and making brews for people as opposed to heroic rescuings from snowed in vehicles.

I think this pretty well is the sum of it for CCRF, natural disasters and the like (Currently the flooding, previously Foot and mouth). Realistically if you speak to the Police we're more of a hinderance than anything, especially when you talk along the lines of a terrorist attack.

I too thought the TA's main selling point would be the ready availability of IPE'd soldiers but it seems a) The Police are more than well enough equipped themselves and b) by the time you could get TA soldiers to the incident it would be cordoned and controlled.
Also see MSR's comment about RTS.

7/7 must have been tough for the the Blue light srvices because of the multiple incidents but they did cope and although many of the Regiment we was with at the time got NTM it was only PSI's that did anything and that I'm led to believe that was quietly sit in the corner.

The only CCRF Ex I've been on was poo, the Police resented us as we were a drain on their resources (food and tea) whilst we sat parked on an runway for an entire weekend.

I'm fairly confident that if required the TA could deliver whatever the blue light services wanted of us on the day without us being put through mind numbing Ex's.

Edited because all blue light services were involved in 7/7.

IIRC, one of the roles of the JSFSG is to provide support for police in the event of a major terrorist attack. I assume that includes setting up cordons etc.

Yep I understand that, reality is the Police can cope and unless the TA were relief in place they will not use the TA IMHO for a terrorist incident.
The scale of an incident that would require a TA/Army cordon would be huge for the Police not to do it on there own.

Lets not forget there is more than one Police force who are working 24hrs the Police would pool these resources first and fast.This timescale issue will always be a problem for the TA.

CCRF is only there for the real major disaster. Its like everything no one ever plans for the unthinkable just a small part of what could be possible.
Take the Buncefiled oil Disaster - it was only ever planned for if one storage tank to go up - they could handle that and planned thus. However went 20 odd went up the planning was no where near close - it was deemed unthinkable if not impossible so they didn't plan for it.

CCRF is along the same lines. Its designed for the unthinkable should it ever happen. However no one believes it ever will. A bit like9/11 it was thought that such terror attacks would never happen - again how wrong they were.

So for planning purpses it should be worst case and then much more - because in reality thats when we would be used. In any role in any way. What if there was a major fuel shortage and fuel or food supplies had to be escorted, what if there was a disaster of such magnitude that we were depolyed on the streets of the UK armed? Thats what the plan and training should be for as thats realistically when we would be called. No the minor crap we always exercise in.

Thus for training it should be the odd Mobex every 2 yrs or so but more so training that integrates all assests - them and us. Most emergency services have no idea what we can bring to the party. On an ex last year I spent most of my time with Bronze command letting them know what we could do for them (not least a self sufficient work force not constrained by shits etc) - and it here and Silver Command where the education is required. For Exercises one big one once a year is fine - no need for Mobex because we can all and are all well trained in deployment into the field we don't need to practice that.

Until the boffins in the Home Office, MOD, Local Authorities and Emergency Services work together on this its going to ontinue to be a wasted opportunity every time we do a CCRF ex.

Cheers

Originally Posted by Baz44

CCRF is only there for the real major disaster. Its like everything no one ever plans for the unthinkable just a small part of what could be possible.
Take the Buncefiled oil Disaster - it was only ever planned for if one storage tank to go up - they could handle that and planned thus. However went 20 odd went up the planning was no where near close - it was deemed unthinkable if not impossible so they didn't plan for it.

CCRF is along the same lines. Its designed for the unthinkable should it ever happen. However no one believes it ever will. A bit like9/11 it was thought that such terror attacks would never happen - again how wrong they were.

So for planning purpses it should be worst case and then much more - because in reality thats when we would be used. In any role in any way. What if there was a major fuel shortage and fuel or food supplies had to be escorted, what if there was a disaster of such magnitude that we were depolyed on the streets of the UK armed? Thats what the plan and training should be for as thats realistically when we would be called. No the minor crap we always exercise in.

Thus for training it should be the odd Mobex every 2 yrs or so but more so training that integrates all assests - them and us. Most emergency services have no idea what we can bring to the party. On an ex last year I spent most of my time with Bronze command letting them know what we could do for them (not least a self sufficient work force not constrained by shits etc) - and it here and Silver Command where the education is required. For Exercises one big one once a year is fine - no need for Mobex because we can all and are all well trained in deployment into the field we don't need to practice that.

Until the boffins in the Home Office, MOD, Local Authorities and Emergency Services work together on this its going to ontinue to be a wasted opportunity every time we do a CCRF ex.

Cheers

The exercise you mention Baz (the one in STANTA) was actually very good - because it was well planned and thought had gone into it. Also the local police were on side. We provided comms support to that exercise and it was superb to have green and blue users - we learnt a great deal and the PXRs have been baked into our SOPs. A bit of commitment and imagination has paid dividends and no one ended up sitting on a coach for 12 hours.

All our training should be for Operations - regardless of where they are. Producing confident and fit soldiers that can adapt to any scenario, should be the desired outcome. Train hard, fight easy. All it takes is imagination and a bit of forethought.

Originally Posted by fozzy

All our training should be for Operations - regardless of where they are. Producing confident and fit soldiers that can adapt to any scenario, should be the desired outcome. Train hard, fight easy. All it takes is imagination and a bit of forethought.

I'm sure I said that first but yes.

The young uns need 'fun', plenty of blank & camm. It so simple why can't anyone else see it .. do I need to spell it out ... If you want us to do CCRF, camouflage it, pretend we are fighting 3rd Shock Army etc ....

oops we've tried that and the TA was big and well recruited

Originally Posted by OnTheBus

Coincidentally, elemants of my Bn were called out last winter when the A30 down in Cornwall got blocked off by a freak blizzard, hundreds of cars stuck in snow. Mostly involved with giving out blankets and making brews for people as opposed to heroic rescuings from snowed in vehicles.

So mate was it Benny and the cambourne SF to the rescue then must have missed that one :D

Ha, yeah something like that! The boss was down there as an LO, got very acquainted with police brewing up procedure's as I recall.

Originally Posted by fozzy

we learnt a great deal and the PXRs have been baked into our SOPs.

Which presumably have been 'socialised' around the Bns?

MSR