ARmy Rumour SErvice

**dinosaur_poo** · 28-05-2012, 20:11

Just a point for discussion - do the 'enablers' actually need to be SNCOs? They get paid more, they get the benefits of mess life & facilities, etc. Surely if it's a case of "your entire continued existence in the TA is based on the fact that your driving license looks like the alphabet" or "your entire continued existence in the TA is based on your CBRN / SAA instructors quals" you can't really warrant SNCO pay and benefits? Is there any good reason why they couldn't be the Coy (everything) driver with 1 or 2 stripes?

Is there any written reason why you can't send somebody from 3 stripes to 1 stripe simply because they no longer fulfil the role that their rank represents? The sceptic in me would go as far to suggest companies are scared of dumping people down a few ranks (or not promoting others) simply for retention as they don't want to see CSgt Bloggs get in a huff and bin it altogether for being handed a lance jacks rank slide and told to put his mess kit on eBay.

It's just that as the TA has evolved in the last 10-15 years, you're starting to see people in SNCO ranks who've actually got the operational experience to support that rank. Seeing the enablers drawing the same (or indeed more) pay and benefits must be a bit demotivational for those who've earned the rank in line with what would be expected of their regular counterparts.

I'm all for keeping people on if they've got skills that are in demand and vital to the continual operation of the unit. What I'm not for is continuing to pay them and offer them benefits as SNCOs when their offerings to the unit do not exceed those of the junior ranks.

**MiracleBill** · 28-05-2012, 20:18

Originally Posted by dinosaur_poo

Just a point for discussion - do the 'enablers' actually need to be SNCOs? They get paid more, they get the benefits of mess life & facilities, etc. Surely if it's a case of "your entire continued existence in the TA is based on the fact that your driving license looks like the alphabet" or "your entire continued existence in the TA is based on your CBRN / SAA instructors quals" you can't really warrant SNCO pay and benefits? Is there any good reason why they couldn't be the Coy (everything) driver with 1 or 2 stripes?

Is there any written reason why you can't send somebody from 3 stripes to 1 stripe simply because they no longer fulfil the role that their rank represents? The sceptic in me would go as far to suggest companies are scared of dumping people down a few ranks (or not promoting others) simply for retention as they don't want to see CSgt Bloggs get in a huff and bin it altogether for being handed a lance jacks rank slide and told to put his mess kit on eBay.

It's just that as the TA has evolved in the last 10-15 years, you're starting to see people in SNCO ranks who've actually got the operational experience to support that rank. Seeing the enablers drawing the same (or indeed more) pay and benefits must be a bit demotivational for those who've earned the rank in line with what would be expected of their regular counterparts.

I'm all for keeping people on if they've got skills that are in demand and vital to the continual operation of the unit. What I'm not for is continuing to pay them and offer them benefits as SNCOs when their offerings to the unit do not exceed those of the junior ranks.

Bloody hell, I actually agree with that.

**chocolate_frog** · 28-05-2012, 20:19

Originally Posted by wellyhead

Just because someone is a. In the TA b. A SNCO Doesn't make them an enabler A SNCO enabler is someone who uses their experience, qualifications and rank to assist the unit, like a SSgt RMQ running a range or a Full Screw SAAI, not a 48 yr old Sgt who can drive a mini bus.

Depends if the RMQ or SAAI can drive a minibus... otherwise no ranges. Should the RMQ/SAAI drive the minibus, who opens the range before the minibus gets tehre? Who drives the range stew, refills the jerries etc.

**chocolate_frog** · 28-05-2012, 20:21

Originally Posted by dinosaur_poo

Just a point for discussion - do the 'enablers' actually need to be SNCOs? They get paid more, they get the benefits of mess life & facilities, etc. Surely if it's a case of "your entire continued existence in the TA is based on the fact that your driving license looks like the alphabet" or "your entire continued existence in the TA is based on your CBRN / SAA instructors quals" you can't really warrant SNCO pay and benefits? Is there any good reason why they couldn't be the Coy (everything) driver with 1 or 2 stripes? Is there any written reason why you can't send somebody from 3 stripes to 1 stripe simply because they no longer fulfil the role that their rank represents? The sceptic in me would go as far to suggest companies are scared of dumping people down a few ranks (or not promoting others) simply for retention as they don't want to see CSgt Bloggs get in a huff and bin it altogether for being handed a lance jacks rank slide and told to put his mess kit on eBay. It's just that as the TA has evolved in the last 10-15 years, you're starting to see people in SNCO ranks who've actually got the operational experience to support that rank. Seeing the enablers drawing the same (or indeed more) pay and benefits must be a bit demotivational for those who've earned the rank in line with what would be expected of their regular counterparts. I'm all for keeping people on if they've got skills that are in demand and vital to the continual operation of the unit. What I'm not for is continuing to pay them and offer them benefits as SNCOs when their offerings to the unit do not exceed those of the junior ranks.

Which is why a suggested a Coy Staff Instructor or similar in my earlier post. Paid as a Cpl or thereabouts. Perhaps let them wear whatever rank they had reached, but they should know there is no more promotion prospects and no more pay.

**polar** · 28-05-2012, 20:23

Originally Posted by bokkatankie

Chickens aside and we know them!

Is an enabler doing a job or blocking a slot.

They are doing a job but with ever diminishing slots available as you move up through the ranks - Its a cert you will hit a block. Maybe not roles available i.e. CQMS and CSM tend to be fluid but the RMQ mentioned above may go static.

Would posting to different capbadges work, i.e. the 'RMQ in waiting' moves to another capbadge within town/county? I've seen potential REME artificers move units to gain experience (same capbadge though)

**msr** · 28-05-2012, 20:26

Or does the army now require such a ridiculous number of courses (M-Qual anyone?) / ridiculous re-qualifying criteria to deliver training that only the old and bold have been in long enough to achieve this?

m-s-r

**Mr_Snakey** · 28-05-2012, 20:26

Originally Posted by CaptainPlume

There ain't nobody here but us chickens, there ain't nobody here at all...

Ha ha ha!

Indeed! I do enjoy a game bird!

I was in a cold sweat hoping no one would clock that!!

**jimmys_best_mate** · 28-05-2012, 20:27

Originally Posted by chocolate_frog

Depends if the RMQ or SAAI can drive a minibus... otherwise no ranges. Should the RMQ/SAAI drive the minibus, who opens the range before the minibus gets tehre? Who drives the range stew, refills the jerries etc.

If the best excuse that can be found for anyone to be kept on is that someone has to take the range stew and screech to the range they're hardly the most vital cog to the military machine. Anyone with a driving licence can drive four norgies and some cheap bread and marge to the ranges.