ARmy Rumour SErvice

**Bravo_Bravo** · 30-04-2012, 13:42

Originally Posted by Dr_Evil

It troubles me that being a teacher can be compatible with trade union activity, school governorship, etc., and schools can work around that.

Trades Unions are there to protect the rights of staff, and AIUI *all* Trades Union reps are allowed to have some time off to receive training in their responsibilities and for some Trade Union duties.

Being a School Governer is (very obviously) related to the school. No problem from this callsign with having training for those duties, or the occasional time of to attend to such duties ( usually done out of hours, AIUI.)

The benefit to the school and pupils in allowing staff to ahve some time off to train for an event that is of nil relevance to the school eludes me. I'd be asking questions if teachers could just drop out of their duties to students on a non essential ( school wise) issue.

A planned absence of two weeks can be worked around by engaging a supply teacher, no?

Would the TA pay? How good will this supply teacher be? Will they be aware of the specific needs of pupils, or will they be on a two week coast?

Finally, it's not as if this particular fella chose the dates on which his unit decided to do annual camp.

Can no other unit deliver the training required? Can it not be done on a Regular course once mobilised?

**The_Duke** · 30-04-2012, 13:43

Dr E,

I am sure you have already done your homework, but is this inability to attend your annual camp definitely their position, and not the soldiers?

I had a teacher on the books for far too many years who used the term time excuse to his great advantage. Strange how it was often difficult to get time off for annual training camps, yet he could miraculously be set free for skiing trips when required.

**Blokeonabike** · 30-04-2012, 13:46

Troy,

In specific answer to your comment about soldiers to teachers, I cannot see the logic of what you say. The proposal is not in any way linked to the issue here.There is no plan to take soldiers and put them part-time into schools as "TA Teachers.

I assure you there is no problem for service leavers with relevant qualifications (any decent first degree will do) and the right aptitude breaking into teaching. As someone posted earlier, schools are in great need of teachers with a bit of real life experience. They know it and they are very keen to get more "high quality career changers" in. There is a good pool of potential applicants for teaching jobs from recent redundancy in the Armed Forces and a process to gain qualified teaching status that could almost be custom made for service leavers - the GTP. What schools do not want, however, is someone who, having taken the job, cannot commit to being a full time member of staff. Ex-Regulars, not TA, are the best way for schools to get people with real world leadership, discipline and management skills and experience.

**HE117** · 30-04-2012, 13:49

I don't think employers, or reservist for that matter, should expect to get paid leave for reserve service. Some employers are quite generous and give some paid leave, but I think this is a bonus..

The trick is to give employers a simple and easily understood means of recompense, that is difficult to fiddle and cheap to administer. My solution would be to give them a 1 month (or whatever) NI contribution holiday for each reservist. The actual loss of revenue to the exchequer would be pretty minimal, as it is a non contribution rather than a refund.

On the other hand, I do detect an excessive amount of goldplating going on in the "mandatory pre deployment" game. I just wonder if this is really in the interest of the individual or the coffers of the supplying agencies..?

From my own experience, I seem to have had the least amount of pre deployment training for the highest risk deployments, and vice versa! "It never did me any harm!"(TM 117 enterprises)

**CaptainPlume** · 30-04-2012, 13:52

Originally Posted by Bravo_Bravo

Trades Unions are there to protect the rights of staff, and AIUI *all* Trades Union reps are allowed to have some time off to receive training in their responsibilities and for some Trade Union duties.

Sorted! The Union will fight for this teacher to get time off for military training and if the fat cat bosses don't grant this leave will naturally call their members to strike, which they will willingly do for a colleague who wishes to serve the country!

Or not. it would be like telling Mail readers that Illegal Immigrants actually enhanced house prices.

**The_Duke** · 30-04-2012, 13:52

Originally Posted by Blokeonabike

Troy,

In specific answer to your comment about soldiers to teachers, I cannot see the logic of what you say. The proposal is not in any way linked to the issue here.There is no plan to take soldiers and put them part-time into schools as "TA Teachers.

I assure you there is no problem for service leavers with relevant qualifications (any decent first degree will do) and the right aptitude breaking into teaching. As someone posted earlier, schools are in great need of teachers with a bit of real life experience. They know it and they are very keen to get more "high quality career changers" in. There is a good pool of potential applicants for teaching jobs from recent redundancy in the Armed Forces and a process to gain qualified teaching status that could almost be custom made for service leavers - the GTP. What schools do not want, however, is someone who, having taken the job, cannot commit to being a full time member of staff. Ex-Regulars, not TA, are the best way for schools to get people with real world leadership, discipline and management skills and experience.

Wow, someone sure sold you the pamphlet, didn't they?

Ex regular army gives you "real world leadership, discipline and management skills and experience"? Tell me - exactly how does your time in a structured, rank driven command system, where discipline comes by authority of position, and where management can be enforced by threat of such discipline prepare you for teaching?

**CaptainPlume** · 30-04-2012, 13:58

Originally Posted by The_Duke

Wow, someone sure sold you the pamphlet, didn't they?

Ex regular army gives you "real world leadership, discipline and management skills and experience"? Tell me - exactly how does your time in a structured, rank driven command system, where discipline comes by authority of position, and where management can be enforced by threat of such discipline prepare you for teaching?

I saw it here on ARRSE, on numerous groups on LinkedIn, and repeatedly among people standing around outside careers seminars having a smoke with other unemployed ex-Forces rather than inside speaking to employers. Former members of the Armed Forces are so sooper-dooper that they should automatically be employed straight away and given a key to the executive bathroom.

**The_Duke** · 30-04-2012, 14:05

Originally Posted by CaptainPlume

I saw it here on ARRSE, on numerous groups on LinkedIn, and repeatedly among people standing around outside careers seminars having a smoke with other unemployed ex-Forces rather than inside speaking to employers. Former members of the Armed Forces are so sooper-dooper that they should automatically be employed straight away and given a key to the executive bathroom.

They are all very good, aren't they? I sat listening to a load of Majors and Lt Colonels talking about how if they got their redundancy they would all be off to the city to earn their fortunes by showing them how to manage their businesses and plan with military efficiency. Of course, this was during a break between their 6th and 7th nugatory staff meeting of the day, before they all sat around a table and brayed at each other prior to going bck to managing their huge staff (Max 10 per Lt Colonel, usually 4).

As a lowly know-nothing STAB, who obviously has absolutely no experience of business, business planning or management I didn't feel it my place to point out that the vast majority of them were causing more problems than they solved, creating more work than they produced and were in fact just a drain on the budget. They would have been made redundant a long time ago in any commercial organisation.

**polar** · 30-04-2012, 14:23

Send him off to the education training services, surely they will have camps during 6 weeks hold

He's a teacher and they have generous hols to make up for the holiday inflexibility. end of.

**delivering_capability** · 30-04-2012, 15:14

There are a number of wider issues here that are worth dwelling on albeit briefly.

The days of the TA representing a broad cross section of society seem to be over. In my sub unit folk seem to be civil servants, self employed (generally falling on hard times) and unemployed along with a smattering of those from the defence industry with sympathetic employers. It is illuminating that of the junior ranks, those that provide the most bodies for operations, off the top of my head only 2 out of a sample of 20-ish have both a full time job and are in a full time relationship with anything other than Ms Palm and her 5 daughters.

CGS said that he foresaw no problem in stocking the ranks with newly minted STABs to get to the figure of 30k trained TA by 2015 (sorry, 2018..20..- must remember to apply the same logic in my next performance review!). Initially, I could not see how this would be the case, but then look at the bigger picture. Millions of 18-24 year olds nation wide not in education, employment or training. It is illuminating that TA centres re opening are advertising additional ‘part time jobs’.

The harsh view might be that an individual should be grateful for any form of ‘employment’ in the current economic climate, and that if you cannot support the TA there are probably dozens of NEETS who would snap your arm off for something better to do than cracking one out in their parent’s spare room. However, increasing compulsion to attend training would surely be a massive own goal for the TA as the roles where there is significant skill transfer from civvy role to STAB (e.g. medical services, national TA) would be decimated. It would also see a lot of capable people in regional units tossing their kit over the TAC perimeter fence.