And breath...

Bed-In,

Thank you for writing what had to be written, but which I - frankly - couldn't be arsed to.

If the Mods are reading this, Bed-In's post alone should be made a sticky on the TA board and everyone who comes here encouraged to read it. As a cogent description of the way ahead - and WHY that is the way ahead - I think you will find it hard to better.

Don't just read it, by the way. Read it and inwardly digest. THINK about what the implications are.

I will hazard a few:

1. The end of any pretence at formed units, ergo:

2. No more need - as Bed-In correctly identifies - for officers who are never going to do the job they are 'trained' for. At best the TA officer will become a trainer and administrator. That is all they will be needed for. I know that some of you will complain that it will be difficult to recruit officers in that case.....but, frankly, who needs them ? Join up to be a watchkeeper maybe - or specialist TA (CIMIC, doctors etc) - but other than that I don't see much future for TA officers at all.

3. The end of specialised units (not specialist TA...quite the reverse for them actually). I would be interested in forum members views on this. I have my own, but I think it is clear that there are some roles that are very obviously doomed. It would be interesting to see some informed, reasoned suggestions of which ones. Come on - which 'sacred cows' are you going to chop ?

4. Those units that will remain will be trained to the economic minimum, ie the minimal level at which one can maintain the pool of IRs that can be polished up for operations. Graduated commitment is coming. It DOES mean a MAXIMUM of 27 MTDs a year. That should be a pretty good indicator of what roles the Army believes are realistic and required in the TA. Again, I bow to TA ARRSE members' knowledge on this: What roles are sustainable on a maximum of 27 MTDs pa ? Seriously, ladies and gents - list them.

Originally Posted by wayner1970

Originally Posted by brucewillis

BedIn,

Not getting in to a tit for tat argument but I like a lot of others have volunteered for Ops for long enough, the truth is (so I'm told by the CoC) that more want to go than are required. My previous post was certainly not a dig at the suffering troops or there family's may be going through. But quite simply this if the TA is not required now while there is a war on, when will they be required.

Might as well just put the lights out shut the door we can all get other hobbies, work overtime or spend time with our family's. One other thing, not met a PSI yet who hasn't admitted the job is a right jolly, frustrating maybe.

Shut us down but I will not do my "hobby" for free.

BW

You managed the Cyprus Gig this time last year though Q eh?...........

I did, it was the only thing I was offered and I took it. Since returning I have put my name forward to go anywhere, same as I did last time. Problem??

Originally Posted by dergeneral

2. No more need - as Bed-In correctly identifies - for officers who are never going to do the job they are 'trained' for. At best the TA officer will become a trainer and administrator. That is all they will be needed for. I know that some of you will complain that it will be difficult to recruit officers in that case.....but, frankly, who needs them ? Join up to be a watchkeeper maybe - or specialist TA (CIMIC, doctors etc) - but other than that I don't see much future for TA officers at all.

.

Yes, thats a Regular view I've heard quite often. The first time was in 1983 from the then DG TA & Res. On a more recent occaision I heard it while sitting at Dinner in Warminster. The visitor failed to realise that his 4 colleagues at dinner that evening were all TA Officers on FTRS.

Whats the current gap in Captains ? ( Against the Requirement, not the paper peactime Establishment....)

I believe that the ( No 5 ? ) Board has only once in the last umpteen years not had to leave Majors posts gapped ?

Where is the bloke who should be doing my job or indeed the last three posts I've filled - one of them left Gapped when I moved on, another filled by a Regular who jacked 4 months later to join the Australians. Unless the shake-out of HQs is going to free up a mahoosive number of Staff then you'll be needing TA Officers for some while yet. Even now the FTRS list has 9 vacancies for Majors - within weeks of being told that there was a Moratorium on FTRS recruiting.

" The TA was formed to face a threat of conventional enemy from the continent. France/Germany etc. It was then maintained to face a similar threat in the form of the Warsaw Pact. "

*Cough* Try harder. The Territorial Force of 1908 was formed to provide a volunter reserve to defend the UK in the event of a Major war in Europe. Once called up they could serve anywhere in the UK BUT not overseas. Units and men COULD volunter for overseas service.

Our predecessor always had that option.

The TF came mostly out of the 1859 Volunter Forces raised in response to threats from Europe and a lack of based regular units. Units of the VF took part in the second Boer war

On the Officer front. The OCE list is showing posts for 100 Captains, 89 Majors and 82 Colonels. Clearly there is no shortage of regular officers at all........

Originally Posted by saladin

The first time was in 1983 from the then DG TA & Res.

Brigadier Tweedy ? He was the man who was going to solve the officer problem by recruiting "good Rugby playing chaps" (untill it was pointed out to him that they were normally doing other things at the weekend....) :D

Originally Posted by saladin

Yes, thats a Regular view I've heard quite often. The first time was in 1983 from the then DG TA & Res. On a more recent occaision I heard it while sitting at Dinner in Warminster. The visitor failed to realise that his 4 colleagues at dinner that evening were all TA Officers on FTRS.

Whats the current gap in Captains ? ( Against the Requirement, not the paper peactime Establishment....)

I believe that the ( No 5 ? ) Board has only once in the last umpteen years not had to leave Majors posts gapped ?

Where is the bloke who should be doing my job or indeed the last three posts I've filled - one of them left Gapped when I moved on, another filled by a Regular who jacked 4 months later to join the Australians. Unless the shake-out of HQs is going to free up a mahoosive number of Staff then you'll be needing TA Officers for some while yet. Even now the FTRS list has 9 vacancies for Majors - within weeks of being told that there was a Moratorium on FTRS recruiting.

But not as platoon, sub-unit or unit commanders......

Amnd surely you are not arguing that the Regular Army should - by dint of the TA ORBAT, institutionalise its failure to recruit and retain officers ?

I note that nobody has taken up the challenge yet. What sacred cows, what capabilities are you going to shed ? What is credible on 27 MTD a year ?

We are getting paid for 50% of drill nights , not bad

Originally Posted by dergeneral

Originally Posted by saladin

.....Where is the bloke who should be doing my job or indeed the last three posts I've filled - .

But not as platoon, sub-unit or unit commanders......

Err, I served as the OC of a Regular sub-unit - and was extended twice because there were no takers to fill the post. The bloke who eventually did was the one who left for the Antipodes. At the same time we had another TA Offr serving as a Pln Comd, again invited to stay and a third who is STILL with the unit and promoted twice.

Amnd surely you are not arguing that the Regular Army should - by dint of the TA ORBAT, institutionalise its failure to recruit and retain officers ?

Of course not - but the current issues with Offr manning will not be solved in the short or even medium term.

I note that nobody has taken up the challenge yet. What sacred cows, what capabilities are you going to shed ?

Difficult to answer that until we are told exactly what is required. At the moment there appear to be few areas where volunteers are not being gratefully accepted - I would have questioned the mass of UK Ops Signallers but that one has been addressed - somewhat cack-handedly. As discussed elsewhere its actually the Regular Army that needs to decide what capabilities are marginal or unaffordable. .

What is credible on 27 MTD a year ?

Not much - and the question itself reveals a misunderstanding of how the TA works. The allocation per person might be 27 MTDs, expressed as part of a CT for the unit. The actual number of MTDs done varies dramatically - OC, CSM, Chef, Driver - all could easily hit 60+, all on valid taskings. The excess comes from those who do a lot less, join and leave etc.

Lets, just for arguments sake, say that we do end up with the "RTC churning out IRs model". You think that the Instructors will only do 1 weekend a month ?

Sorry. If MoD wants a Reserve it needs to be resourced properly and have a range of skills. If all that is needed is a constant stream of basic IRs then bin the TA altogether and introduce some sort of Regular Lite, "Gap Year" type TACOS. You never know, if its funded properly it might actually attract some good kids looking for a one-off adrenalin hit before they get a real job.

Originally Posted by firestarter

Originally Posted by saladin

The first time was in 1983 from the then DG TA & Res.

Brigadier Tweedy ? He was the man who was going to solve the officer problem by recruiting "good Rugby playing chaps" (untill it was pointed out to him that they were normally doing other things at the weekend....) :D

Kennedy - maybe I got the year wrong ?