Thread: OTC fallout from the RoTR

Originally Posted by Hardysa

Originally Posted by WingletangScale

I think the OTC will be scaled down too - measured on output.

Are the OTC being included in this review?

Bloody hell....That will be none left then..

To my mind, if MoD want the OTC to provide some sort of exposure to the army for possible future leaders in society, then MoD can pay for it out of someone else's budget, NOT the budget of the only real reserve that the Regular army has left..

Why not make the OTCs part of the TA they do 2-4 years training and have to serve x years return for service in either TA or regular army?

Or make the OTCs a non-deployable/emergency deployable part of the TA (I know it would mean large parts of the unit would be little use on ops etc)

Or just get rid of it and let them join the TA?

Originally Posted by irlsgt

Why not make the OTCs part of the TA they do 2-4 years training and have to serve x years return for service in either TA or regular army?

Or make the OTCs a non-deployable/emergency deployable part of the TA (I know it would mean large parts of the unit would be little use on ops etc)

Or just get rid of it and let them join the TA?

The OTCs are a non deployable part of the TA. And if the emergency was big enough I'm sure a lot of them would find themselves being asked to help ... (probably by filling sandbags or something equally menial).

My OTC did provide around 15 soldiers on OP PENNISULA in 2001 in support of MAFF/DEFRA for 3 months +. Furthermore (I can only speak of my own experience) my OTC did produce a significant amount of TA officers, and a good many including myself went from TA to OTC back to TA/regular army much better for it too. It is a worthwhile institution and I did far harder exercises/training there than I have in the TA (PDT/OPS not included of course)

Originally Posted by HVM_Boy

Originally Posted by irlsgt

Why not make the OTCs part of the TA they do 2-4 years training and have to serve x years return for service in either TA or regular army?

Or make the OTCs a non-deployable/emergency deployable part of the TA (I know it would mean large parts of the unit would be little use on ops etc)

Or just get rid of it and let them join the TA?

The OTCs are a non deployable part of the TA. And if the emergency was big enough I'm sure a lot of them would find themselves being asked to help ... (probably by filling sandbags or something equally menial).

Can you fit a student in a sandbag?

Originally Posted by Hopkins

Originally Posted by HVM_Boy

Originally Posted by irlsgt

Why not make the OTCs part of the TA they do 2-4 years training and have to serve x years return for service in either TA or regular army?

Or make the OTCs a non-deployable/emergency deployable part of the TA (I know it would mean large parts of the unit would be little use on ops etc)

Or just get rid of it and let them join the TA?

The OTCs are a non deployable part of the TA. And if the emergency was big enough I'm sure a lot of them would find themselves being asked to help ... (probably by filling sandbags or something equally menial).

Can you fit a student in a sandbag?

Current thinking is that whilst they are a nice to have, the days of 'nice to have' are over. Measurable output is the order of the day.

One plan is for an OTC cadet to opt out of TA service after leaving University rather than the current 'opt in'. In other words, joining the OTC is effectively agreeing to join the TA as an Officer, a bit like recruits now going through the system anticipating an Op Tour...we simply can't afford the OTC 'wider community/business empathy' bit anymore...financially or operationally.

Bear in mind that the difference between an A or B commission is negligible.

Before we all get too excited about the idea of forcing the OTC to pay its way by requiring OTC types to become TA officers, could we please bear in mind the natural, albeit horrific, consequence:

more OTC types coming straight into the TA as officers.

The horror.

Originally Posted by Dr_Evil

Before we all get too excited about the idea of forcing the OTC to pay its way by requiring OTC types to become TA officers, could we please bear in mind the natural, albeit horrific, consequence:

more OTC types coming straight into the TA as officers.

The horror.

Too true - it would be just as much forcing units to accept them as forcing them to join. All a bit pointless anyway as it's casual labour and as soon as the majority realiiese what jobs ('real world' and 'real TA') entails they won't hand around.

Originally Posted by Dr_Evil

Before we all get too excited about the idea of forcing the OTC to pay its way by requiring OTC types to become TA officers, could we please bear in mind the natural, albeit horrific, consequence:

more OTC types coming straight into the TA as officers.

The horror.

There is a threshold to cross before entry ;)

Are you ex-OTC?

MSR

OTCs, by and large, are student clubs which use the TA system to train officers and organise social events and it's true that many who join never have anything else to do with the Military, but let's not forget the fact that the very nature of what they aim to achieve often makes the majority of them the subject matter experts on Officer Trg.

As such, the general standard of training (excluding arms trg obviously) can be greater than that of Bde level. It is certainly more involved as the numbers are larger and the social/sport side help keep them in for the duration of the trg. Additionally, OTCs often encourage those who had never thought of a military career before think about going all the way - another thing you don't get with Bde trg.

If you look at the numbers at Sandhurst, courses are usually about 50/50 if not slightly more from OTC meaning get rid of them and you will drop the number of YO by even more.

Yes they don't do themselves any favours by having a low "conversion" ratio on numbers joining and they get into the national press for stupid antics (which is typical of any military organisation OR student club!) but they do feed many, many people into the regulars and the TA and should not be written off just yet.

AAR

I suspect that the overwhelming majority of OTC types who go on the be Commissioned intended to to do before they joined the OTC.

Then again, as has been pointed out, the main reason behind the OTC is not to produce Officers, its a PR effort. Given this, why should the TA pay for them? Why not some central budget?

Let's not bash the OTC in this thread...

Originally Posted by Bravo_Bravo

I suspect that the overwhelming majority of OTC types who go on the be Commissioned intended to to do before they joined the OTC.

Then again, as has been pointed out, the main reason behind the OTC is not to produce Officers, its a PR effort. Given this, why should the TA pay for them? Why not some central budget?

The PR effort line is an old one that is churned out to avoid accusations of active recruitment at a higher education facility.
The OTC is a recruiting tool, but a politically sensitive one. It was looked at one stage for OTC training to count towards time at sandhurst, in order to shorten the commissioning course, but the idea was fortunately binned.

Many in the OTC may have considered joining the army before joining the OTC, but memebership of the OTC helps ensure during their 3 or 4 years at uni they don't get distracted too much and keeps the interest going.

If OTCs are to be cut, then it should be done on a league table of entrants to RMAS.

Interestingly, OTCs don't produce as many TA officers post OTC as Regular, so there is a slight TA/OTC disconnect.

Over the past 4-5 years, almost all of the young officers in EWRR/4 YORKS and Tyne Tees/5 RRF have all been from an OTC and this trend seems to be continuing now...

[quote="smallbrownprivates"]

Originally Posted by Bravo_Bravo

If OTCs are to be cut, then it should be done on a league table of entrants to RMAS.

What kind of entrants to RMAS? Regular or TA or Both?

And how could such a cut be made when the aim of producing officers has not been in the OTC mission statement before?

Perhaps it should be in the mission statement, but the OTCs would need at least 3 years to get this into their plans.