This argument seems to fall under the governments idea of 'hmmm, we don't seem to need/can't afford you now, therefore you are useless, goodbye *fastforward 4 years* riiigghtt...where have all our young officerlets got to?'

The OTC performs a function in society, and with the increasing levels of demand placed on our reserves, the more people we have looking favourably on them in the future the better we will be. I think lots of people are either peeved at the perceived lack of training, or jelous that they didn't get to have a go.

We need the young officers coming through to commissions, and we also need to forge greater links with the civilian workplace as time goes by so that our reserves can go on ops instead of getting the 'manager says no' scenario that seems to occur far too often these days.

Could there be better integration with local TA units? Sure, i have no doubt that it would be welcomed on both sides, and those of you in a position to do so should take note.


All said as an ex-OTC headache.

Originally Posted by tiger stacker

Better quality TA staff posted to the OTCs - Not just the elderly majors and downgraded SNCOs.

Having served under some rather products from Tayforth, their Elderly Majors and downgraded SNCOs are rather well equipped to guide potential officers.
In fact unless memory is playing tricks the instructors have had a lot of operational experience to fallback on.

I agree with yourself, I went through TACC MOD3 with ULOTC and we had some cracking DS whom were far from elderly majors and downgraded SNCOs. The OTC provides an excellent insight into the Army. That said it has started to become a rather costly nice to have.

The fact of the matter is it produces very few TA officers, plenty of regulars (40 a year when I was at ULOTC) but only a handful of TA. I heard a interesting idea from one of the officers in my unit a few years ago that went like this;

-OTCs transformed into University Training Regiments. Rather than all being ocdts the students are cat B privates but training remains much the same.

-Real POs are cherry picked and placed in a cadre with the goal of commissioning. The rest carry on pretty much as they do now but maybe chuck in CBRN to allow for an easy transfer into the TA.

-Ideally you can still give everyone the 'otc experience' without wasting too many resources on those who don't want to commission plus you might get a few more transferring after their 3 years at uni as they won't have the stigma of a percieved (its not always the case but sometimes the ill-informed will see it as such) failed officer wannabe.

I've said before on this matter.

Howmuch actual "goodwill" do we garner from the OTCs? By the time the former "on side" OTC types get to make such choices and policies they have probably long forgotton such minor points, and further padded out their CVs.

Perhaps a greater showing on behalf of the OTC/Executive Stretch would be better placed to spread the good news.

ie Free Executive Stretch for various companies, based on howmany TA types they already have.

Originally Posted by saladin

Better quality TA staff posted to the OTCs - Not just the elderly majors and downgraded SNCOs.

Certainly in my neck of the woods, that has been the case for a few years. The OTC command appointments come up on the Brigade table, and are far from a sinecure for the elderly.

If you looked at it from first principles, you would want post-sub-unit-command Majors as the UOTC instructors; young, thrusting TA Gp.A Captains itching for promotion are all very well, but they should be commanding TA Gp.A soldiers....

Originally Posted by saladin

Faster rotation of slots - 2 years in the OTC then back to the unit instead of the current slow decline to retirement.

I think you'll find that the slow decline to retirement is purely because the UOTC can't fill the slots with the right people, and are asking people to stay on...

..and the slow decline to retirement isn't always that; I spent my last three years in the TA at a UOTC, but at the time it wasn't black and white. I staggered out of two back-to-back posts as a sub-unit OC, absolutely knackered, with a newborn just arrived. I was going to hang up my boots, but the UOTC was offered as a way to keep me going at a reduced commitment while I "recharged my batteries".

I had a hugely enjoyable couple of years teaching MTQ2, got my TA mojo back, and was offered my slot on TACSC (with the attendant implications of going back to 70 to 80 MTDs per year, a unit 2ic slot, and perhaps, maybe, if I did well, a chance at the pink list). Hardly the long slow decline; two of the first-choice places from the Brigade for TACSC that year were from our UOTC.

Unfortunately, the arrival of rugrat no.2 meant that I picked retirement...

Originally Posted by Bravo_Bravo

I'm pretty sure that the guys we send to ULOTC are pretty good - as are the bulk of the cadets we see. My Company have made a conscious effort to get TASOs out with us when we can - certainly we have had Puppies of War on the last three FTXs I've seen, as well as shooting & a dinner this weeknd.

But I do come from a very good Company...

This is the kind of support the OTC needs.

There seems to be a number who think OTC's should be producing Officers on their laps. They won't give any support by way of involvement in training or if they do just put them on stag or at work in dixieland.

They don't/won't/can't send Officers or NCO's for the training staff, they never open their doors to let the Officer Cadets see what they have to offer.

No wonder recruitment isn't as good as it could be, its a two way street.

There seems to be scant amount of figures or evidence regarding the OTC. "It's well recruited" "Lots of them go on to be regulars"

I'm not denying that the OTC is a worthwhile organisation but we can't go on justifying it as a 'nice to have' and at the same time accusing other public organisations as having a lack of transparency and purpose.

I'm happy to be corrected but I'm unaware of any instance where someone in service was afforded better treatment because their boss/friend/spouse used to be in the OTC; and if that's the whole point of the OTC to develop a general understanding of the military in society I'd expect it to be a bit more prominent.

The OTC is either a PR mechanism to generate greater understanding of the armed forces in society or a recruitment tool to generate a supply for TA and Regular Officers; but nothing seems to be coming forward in terms of solid evidence to support either.


H

Originally Posted by Hardysa

There seems to be scant amount of figures or evidence regarding the OTC. "It's well recruited" "Lots of them go on to be regulars"

There isn't. Every OTC reports on exactly how many OCdts have joined, passed MTQ1, passed MTQ2, achieved bounty, attended annual camp, attended camps with other units, and gone on to RMAS either for CC or TACC.

I can remember trawling the data to get exactly that data Division-wide as an SO3(V) in the mid-1990s, during yet another review of the UOTCs. One reason for the review was a shortage of TA Gp.A YOs, and a need to justify value for money...

There's a reason why the UOTCs have survived. Every time there has been a review, the bottom line has supported their existence. Just because they aren't published across the TA doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Meanwhile, I'll back up Jagythistle - having seen both sides of the fence, and yattered on about it in previous threads on the subject. If TA units wonder why they don't get YOs out of the UOTC, they should look in a mirror. I include my own Regiment in that statement.

If UOTC OCdts turn up on annual camp, get dropped in the NAAFI, and jiffed by the less-experienced JNCOs for all the block jobs, then that unit shouldn't fool itself that it's doing a positive job of recruitment.

There has to be a happy medium. The OTC performs a function in society and provides officers and troops to both regular and TA units (admittiedly to varying degrees). Despite this they are seemingly expensive - for a limited immediate role.
The modern TA has a vital role in filling the slots that the regular army is unable to fulfill (not a dig).
What about one TA, with funding for the OTC added to the TA budget. The TA can still offer officer training to those who choose it (and lets face it, how many OTC actually achieve a TA Commission in their three (+) years?) the rest can play a vital role within the platoons, they are going to benefit from every aspect of training that is currently available to them (they have brought their budget with them), after they have finished their studies they can take the opportunity to do a tour, or leave. Obviously they will be unlikely to deploy during their studies, but can still allow training to take place with decent numbers, which can only benefit everyone. Properly qualified NCO's leading keen young lads and lasses.
I don't see any reason why that should impact the numbers that the regular army recieves from the TA/OTC as it currently stands. Nor why that should change the positive light the Armed Forces recieves in society from those that have served in the OTC in the past.
And if it's the drinking aspect they're worried about losing, then I'm fairly certain it won't be an issue!!

Edited for Monglish

Originally Posted by tiger stacker

Better quality TA staff posted to the OTCs - Not just the elderly majors and downgraded SNCOs.

Having served under some rather outstanding products from Tayforth, their Elderly Majors and downgraded SNCOs are rather well equipped to guide potential officers.
In fact unless memory is playing tricks the instructors have had a lot of operational experience to fallback on.

I quite like Tayforth too. I believe two of the staff are currently in Afghan as we speak and neither would blush if accused of being "fairly mature".

On the other hand the current Bde Comds idea of folk doing a tour with the OTC as a Capt then back to parent unit and back again as a Major has a lot to say for it and would provide better role-models than us old farts. Same goes for NCOs. In practise tho' there are never enough good corporals, young Sgts and Captains about - but a fair few 50ish Majors.

Lets be honest here - a lot of us elderly Majors would have been retired years ago had there been the massed ranks of young thrusters following on behind that there should have been. There are a few - but not enough.

[quote="chocolate_frog"]
Perhaps a greater showing on behalf of the OTC/Executive Stretch would be better placed to spread the good news.

.[/quote

NOOOO. Executive Stretch is the biggest waste of money, time and effort I've seen in a long time - at least in it current format. Up here we get the entire trainset out to entertain a few dozen civvies.... Impact is bugger all for all the effort expended.

I saw some of the very early Ex ES. The whole thing was done by 1 TA Inf Coy - NOT a stand each from every unit in the Bde plus the Air Farce and the Matelots.