Originally Posted by bobos

Tony Bliar could not possibly take over as Grand Master because;
a. One has to believe in a greater being and he doesn't believe there is anyone greater than himself
b. masonic links. Bliar is not a mason
c. You have to be honest. Enough said !!
d. You have to be truthful. Enough said !!
e. You have to be charitable. Enough said !!
f. You have to be respected. Enough said !!
g. You have to have done something useful in your life. List on the back of a postage stamp please.

Even in the passing of their Grand Master, no organization is THAT desperate !!

One correction and one addition:

The SMOM has nothing to do with the masons. The Roman Catholic church prohibits membership.

The GM of the Order is only "open" to those who have taken solemn religious vows. One of which is celibacy. Now if I were married to the Wicked Witch I would probably be celibate but even so I don't think it would count.

Just an update on this - the 79th Grand Master of the SMOM has been elected this morning in Rome. Of interest to those on here is that it is Fra' Matthew Festing, Grand Prior of England:

http://www.orderofmalta.org/site/not...406&idlingua=5

Originally Posted by gallowglass

Just an update on this - the 79th Grand Master of the SMOM has been elected this morning in Rome. Of interest to those on here is that it is Fra' Matthew Festing, Grand Prior of England:

http://www.orderofmalta.org/site/not...406&idlingua=5

Aaaaw. Not Tony B, then.

Originally Posted by frenchperson

Originally Posted by gallowglass

Just an update on this - the 79th Grand Master of the SMOM has been elected this morning in Rome. Of interest to those on here is that it is Fra' Matthew Festing, Grand Prior of England:

http://www.orderofmalta.org/site/not...406&idlingua=5

Aaaaw. Not Tony B, then.

Howdedo frenchperson,

Johnny-come-lately Catholics do not tend to be well received by the Order, which, unlike the House of Commons, attaches a good deal of importance to tradition, background and behaviour - Blair and most politicos would therefore be ruled out.

Originally Posted by Gas Gas Gas

Originally Posted by bobos

Tony Bliar could not possibly take over as Grand Master because;
a. One has to believe in a greater being and he doesn't believe there is anyone greater than himself
b. masonic links. Bliar is not a mason
c. You have to be honest. Enough said !!
d. You have to be truthful. Enough said !!
e. You have to be charitable. Enough said !!
f. You have to be respected. Enough said !!
g. You have to have done something useful in your life. List on the back of a postage stamp please.

Even in the passing of their Grand Master, no organization is THAT desperate !!

One correction and one addition:

The SMOM has nothing to do with the masons. The Roman Catholic church prohibits membership.

The GM of the Order is only "open" to those who have taken solemn religious vows. One of which is celibacy. Now if I were married to the Wicked Witch I would probably be celibate but even so I don't think it would count.

Beat me to it: there are strong links between the Masons and the Knights Templer, including every Masonic Lodge being a representation of the Temple of Soloman. Although there is no hard evidance, many Freemasons believe themselves to be the spiritual descendants of the Knights Templer. One of the most popular legands is that Knights Templer who fought at Bannockburn were allowed to stay in Scotland by de Bruce, on the understanding that the Order would disband.

So the Knights disbanded the Order but kept the rituals etc alive within their families(they were no longer bound by their Knightly vows, including celibacy :wink)and this eventually became Freemasonary.

As I said, no evidance at all, but a very nice story which many Masons believe.

When both organisations were on Crusade, there was no love lost at all between the Templers and Knights Hospitaltier; imagine Paras vs Marines and you get a rough idea.

So there is no way a Mason would join the Knights of St John, even if he was allowed to.

Oh, is that my anorak? And you've called a taxi, how kind...

Knights of Malta eh? Those from whom the 33rd degree Freemasons take their orders huh? And who do the Knights of Malta take their orders from we wondersssss, yesssssssss we wondersssssssss.

Originally Posted by gallowglass

Johnny-come-lately Catholics do not tend to be well received by the Order.....

That rules me out since I'm not a cradle Catholic.

Fra' Matthew served in the Grenadier Guards and holds the rank of colonel in the Territorial Army. He was appointed OBE (Officer of the Order of the British Empire) by the Queen and has served as her Deputy Lieutenant in the county of Northumberland for a number of years.

I may be wrong here, but his Colonelcy may be with ACF. He certainly made Major with 6RRF - Promotion to Major - Gazette Entry 1984.

Northumbria Cadets- Gazette entry 1991.

Found his OBE details & ACF Colonelcy at the BBC website in the 1998 Birthday Honours.

He was certainly referred to as Colonel in the notice of his appointment as a DL for Northumberland

Beat me to it: there are strong links between the Masons and the Knights Templer, including every Masonic Lodge being a representation of the Temple of Soloman. Although there is no hard evidance, many Freemasons believe themselves to be the spiritual descendants of the Knights Templer. One of the most popular legands is that Knights Templer who fought at Bannockburn were allowed to stay in Scotland by de Bruce, on the understanding that the Order would disband.
[b]
So the Knights disbanded the Order but kept the rituals etc alive within their families(they were no longer bound by their Knightly vows, including celibacy :wink)and this eventually became Freemasonary.
As I said, no evidance at all, but a very nice story which many Masons believe. [/b]
When both organisations were on Crusade, there was no love lost at all between the Templers and Knights Hospitaltier; imagine Paras vs Marines and you get a rough idea.
So there is no way a Mason would join the Knights of St John, even if he was allowed to.
Oh, is that my anorak? And you've called a taxi, how kind... [/quote]


Let's get the title of this very illustrious organisation correct before we continue. They are : The Soverign Military Hospitaller Order of St John of Jerusalem of Rhodes and of Malta.

They were dissolved by Henry V111 in 1540 when several prominent Knights of Malta were executed. They are not to be confused with the Most Venerable Order of St. John of Jerusalem in the British Relm founded in 1888. However both organisations signed a co-operation agreement in 1963.

I take polite issue with my brother's highlighted comments above and which are personal and not the views of United Grand Lodge.

Templers and the Hospitallers worked extremely effectively and together in all of their Crusades. The only Order that Templers were permitted to visit outside of their own priorys was the Hospitallers. Such was their co-operation that when Phillip the Fair suppressed the Templers in 1312 all of their wealth and property was transferred to the Order of St. John.

There is no reason or rule to say that a Freemason may not belong to this organisation should he so be invited. There will always be zealots in both camps who will interpret the guidelines in the manner as they will.

Last year the noble order donated £500 million in aid specifically to war zones.

Fra Matthew Festing OBE is the second Englishman in the 1000 year history of the Order to hold this title. His dad 'Front Line Franky' the Field Marshall and CIGS is well worth a review.