- 16-07-2012, 16:32 #701
The argument on offer is the success of the sciences in physics (objective real world) leads to Truth about Life (in the subjective private world). That is we have great success in physics therefore the assertion is made that there is nothing, categorically nothing, beyond this data set: This is actually a wild and erroneous extrapolation. Your indignation, if you weren't tempting dis-ingenuity yourself, should be rightfully horrified as such untruth on such a scale. This domain-stretch is known as Scientism (back to belief-systems).
Psychology of any kind is a natural philosophical pursuit reliant on scientific method, which means it can only detect natured-self, not human being. Its data is drawn from hard patterns of observable and publicly available data (of only embodied self). It can't gain access to being-human as human beings live according to their own volition, directed from reflective thought, generated only subjectively (privately). If they're not acting from reflective thought then they've lost their capacity to be human beings, by definition (they are therefore non-beings). Science, by its own system, cannot operate in this domain. Its methods cannot deal with the actual volume of data generated in the social world or via conscious thought, in 'ordinary lived experience'. I am very genuinely defending the limits of good science."As we moved slowly through the outskirts of the town we passed row after row of little grey slum houses running at right angles to the embankment. At the back of one of the houses a young woman was kneeling on the stones, poking a stick up the leaden waste-pipe which ran from the sink inside and which I suppose was blocked. I had time to see everything about her - her sacking apron, her clumsy clogs, her arms reddened by the cold. She looked up as the train passed, and I was almost near enough to catch her eye." Orwell, The Road to Wigan Pier
- 16-07-2012, 19:31 #702
- 16-07-2012, 19:42 #703
So because science cannot explain the finer aspects of consciousness JC must be the Lord? Where's the explicit connection there between human consciousness and Jesus being the son of God?
Just because we don't know the answer to something doesn't mean we have to take the irresponsible leap of saying "magic man did it". It is simply the unknown, that's the only answer anyone can give. From a logical perspective it is likely that we evolved consciousness, it's a by-product of advanced group cohesion and communication, there's no grand design. One day we simply began thinking, but that doesn't mean there's a purpose to our being able to think.For where thou art, there is the world itself, and where thou art not, desolation.
- 16-07-2012, 19:51 #704
Faith does life as it is lived moment by moment (subjective experience). Science does things (objective reality).
Your attributing consciousness to the science domain is without scientific foundation."As we moved slowly through the outskirts of the town we passed row after row of little grey slum houses running at right angles to the embankment. At the back of one of the houses a young woman was kneeling on the stones, poking a stick up the leaden waste-pipe which ran from the sink inside and which I suppose was blocked. I had time to see everything about her - her sacking apron, her clumsy clogs, her arms reddened by the cold. She looked up as the train passed, and I was almost near enough to catch her eye." Orwell, The Road to Wigan Pier
- 16-07-2012, 20:22 #705
I'm attributing the evolution of consciousness to the scientific domain. I'm not attempting to explain the mysteries of consciousness itself using the scientific method. I'm merely making a logical step as to how we came to be thinking apes rather than banana chomping gorillas - it was most likely a prolonged random process via freak mutation and this is where we ended up.
Faith is not required for this explanation, consciousness is the unknown and we acquired this odd ability through biological chance, not the grace of God.For where thou art, there is the world itself, and where thou art not, desolation.
- 17-07-2012, 01:20 #706
You are apparently unaware of how modern sciences deal with the relationship between physics and life...No stone is left unturned these days. You are indulging in the area of woo woo... a non existing, imagined domain that is well understood and documented as a psychological condition. Don't underestimate what we know about you BSL, both the cause and effect have been exposed throughout these emails. You are claiming that your circuit board is receiving signals from a programme that is not being transmitted! It's a dummy fault... The TV man understands interference and background radiation but if the set has been exposed to water cannot repair it under warranty.
I challenge you to explain what you define as "Human being" and I'll pop back by return with a scientific explanation...see if I can't eh. But if you refuse to accept that we are in a physical existence then I'm afraid that you are the one that is insulting science.
Last edited by Higgs_bosun; 17-07-2012 at 06:22. Reason: i before e except after c...grrrrr
- 17-07-2012, 01:45 #707
The strange intuition that you cling to is an evolutionary phenomena but not actually containing knowledge. Often feelings that are from the subliminal can be useful. I observe my Koi fish as they surface for food... a mixture of fear and hunger. Eventually they take a risk and it's ok. Knowledge reaps the rewards.
My 'intuitions' about gods and fears of the unknown are gone thankfully.
Last edited by Higgs_bosun; 17-07-2012 at 01:52. Reason: typo
- 17-07-2012, 08:53 #708
- 17-07-2012, 09:42 #709
- 17-07-2012, 10:34 #710
Last edited by Higgs_bosun; 18-07-2012 at 01:41.