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Originally Posted by BoomShackerLacker

As you wish.

No...As it is.

Originally Posted by Higgs_bosun

Question: Name a species that is?

Intelligent
Has excellent memory
Sociable
Loving
Can experience empathy
Has self awareness
Has a means of communication
Good survival instincts
Existed before christianity but does not have any religion therefore does not worry about heaven or hell.

Answer: There are several…mankind is not so special.

Then consider what happens to the consciousness of other sentient creatures. A pig, a rat, an elephant or a whale for example. They are all made of the same stuff as us… then the millions of insect species and simple organisms that continue to evolve daily.

Why and how would a god plan then select only an infinitesimal few from the trillions of organisms that have existed for special treatment, choosing to send to hell a vast majority of these to suffer at the hands of an entity over which it (he) cannot control?

My assertion is that there is no such god with intentions, purpose or meaning…. and no special treatment for mankind is possible or necessary. Life is nothing other than a random, bio-chemical process that has evolved for the blink of an eye in cosmological terms and will disappear forever just as quickly.

Everything that we know about physics and reality points to these conclusions. Only the twisted imagination and festering ignorance of primitive religions refuse to accept it. An absurd situation for mankind today is that we need to debate about it.

This is HB a Belief System in itself. It is the Gospel of Nihilism. Nihilism is a 'strong hand' to play. The cold hard rationalist against the world, armed with Knowledge and sharp elbows, pouring scorn on the weak with their passions. I think some of it is needed, in business, during attack in war, but not surely as a whole 'life orientation'.

Also, nothing in physics points to the above 'life orientation'. Physics points to objects represented as phenomena. Nihilism is a human choice of 'how to be'. The notion that science has dealt or even buzzed close to the notion of 'human being' and 'meaning' is an insult to physics and science. Science is a wonderful thing, but it deals with phenomena and wild claims about 'it pointing' anywhere towards human being is grossly unscientific and outside of its domain. Like the TV set's exposed wiring suddenly commenting on the programme content from within its circuit boards. Humans interpret all according to their life politics.

Of course the human being is the only being ... and the only creature that can stand outside of its desires. Making them entirely unique and rather wonderful and special.

Life and the world beyond phenomena is as dark and mysterious and free to examine by those with a serious concern.

Originally Posted by Higgs_bosun

No...As it is.

No... as your fears and concerns drive it to be.

Originally Posted by BoomShackerLacker

This is HB a Belief System in itself. It is the Gospel of Nihilism. Nihilism is a 'strong hand' to play. The cold hard rationalist against the world, armed with Knowledge and sharp elbows, pouring scorn on the weak with their passions. I think some of it is needed, in business, during attack in war, but not surely as a whole 'life orientation'.

Also, nothing in physics points to the above 'life orientation'. Physics points to objects represented as phenomena. Nihilism is a human choice of 'how to be'. The notion that science has dealt or even buzzed close to the notion of 'human being' and 'meaning' is an insult to physics and science. Science is a wonderful thing, but it deals with phenomena and wild claims about 'it pointing' anywhere towards human being is grossly unscientific and outside of its domain. Like the TV set's exposed wiring suddenly commenting on the programme content from within its circuit boards. Humans interpret all according to their life politics.

Of course the human being is the only being ... and the only creature that can stand outside of its desires. Making them entirely unique and rather wonderful and special.

Life and the world beyond phenomena is as dark and mysterious and free to examine by those with a serious concern.

You're still skipping merrily around the question without actually coming to terms with the fundamental point - other intelligent life forms have no need for Christianity. Just because science doesn't have all the answers is irrelevent.

Higgsy has pointed out in his post that Dolphins, Elephants and other intelligent creatures have no need for a Jesus figure or Messiah, they can live and love in harmony without the need for magic words, prayer or confusing sermons. Where's the Elephant God? I have pointed out in plain terms that religion is the direct result of man trying to give nature a purpose when none exists. There's no getting round that, the evidence is clear.

Religion didn't matter for life in the Deep Time of the past and it probably won't matter for whatever life exists in the Deep Time of the future. If we're lucky we might survive another few thousand years, if we're very lucky indeed we might even make a million. But one million years is still a pathetic attempt compared to our predecessors. A million years into the future we're likely to have evolved into something else too, and in three billion years life will be as different to us now as we are to early forms of bacteria. Religion doesn't have anything at all to say about these simple truths.

Why people should go on believing that God came to earth and pretended to be a man is beyond me. Why is it so hard to see that the world goes ahead of its own accord and we're just temporary passengers?

Right can we just put the record straight here- JC did not come to overturn the Roman Authority in the accepted sense. There is the possibility to the texts were redacted to show this but we don't know.There is no evidence in any of the Gospels that he preached the overthrow of the Roman Regime, rather he came as a protestant ( I use that word literally) about the way that the Jewish religion was being used by the establishment. What be came the Roman Catholic Church was the Pauline concept of JC and don't forget that Paul wanted to be treated as a Roman citizen. It had its advantages. From what I can make out the very fact that he did not espouse violence and revolution in the accepted sense- rather a thought process was what made hm so dangerous to the Jews and the Romans.

Originally Posted by BoomShackerLacker

This is HB a Belief System in itself. It is the Gospel of Nihilism.

For fuck's sake, you really need to stop trying to paint everything that doesn't agree with your worldview as a competing faith. It's disingenuous and hypocritical in the extreme.

Originally Posted by Koschei

For fuck's sake, you really need to stop trying to paint everything that doesn't agree with your worldview as a competing faith. It's disingenuous and hypocritical in the extreme.

Difficult to see how it's disingenuous or hypocritical in the truest sense of those words. You may have fired from the hip? Safety-catch?

Are you saying Materialism, Determinism and Nihilism aren't well-establishedbelief systems?

Or are you appealing to Argumentation ad Mock Indignationem? I can roll my eyes back if you wish?

Maybe you'd like to outline how Scientific Method (classically taught and understood) can comment on Human Being? I'm defending science here and its appalling misrepresentation page after page by the popularista.

Originally Posted by LeoRoverman

Right can we just put the record straight here- JC did not come to overturn the Roman Authority in the accepted sense. There is the possibility to the texts were redacted to show this but we don't know.There is no evidence in any of the Gospels that he preached the overthrow of the Roman Regime, rather he came as a protestant ( I use that word literally) about the way that the Jewish religion was being used by the establishment. What be came the Roman Catholic Church was the Pauline concept of JC and don't forget that Paul wanted to be treated as a Roman citizen. It had its advantages. From what I can make out the very fact that he did not espouse violence and revolution in the accepted sense- rather a thought process was what made hm so dangerous to the Jews and the Romans.

BUT, LR, he did invite confrontation in the most subtle terms; a personal existential revolution of the heart and view of self which in itself may have led to local political challenges between a slave and his master or an individual and an official. The invitation was to 'not be the victim' by resorting to burning insurrection but rather by almost a militant violent 'dignity'; if you can run with the mixed metaphors. I show in my walk and heart orientation that my concern is above arm-wrestling politics and Pyrrhic victories for my own satisfaction alone; and I'll save my frothing anger for the religious hypocrites (money changes took some beating).