ARmy Rumour SErvice

Originally Posted by BoomShackerLacker

"in some form independent of us"

Got to hand it to you BSL - you are the master of straw-clutching.

Originally Posted by BoomShackerLacker

The jet engine is filtered cognitively and re-imagined using language.

We assume the jet engine is there in some form independent of us and assume the intelligibility of science as part of our human activity. Science is a socially constructed system of signs. All is expressed in thought.

Where else is it?

Lost in fog....you don't know anything, can't do anything, no thoughts of your own, locked in limbo with only a delusion to keep you company. Nothing is real to you...except the delusion...

Religion has caused you to loose your mind pal...I feel very sorry for you.

The jet engine is there whether we like it or not, it's got nothing to do with fancy philosophical thought and language, just because we can hear it and understand it makes no difference whatsoever. It exists as a physical object outside of our physical experience as well as in it.

Try flying a glider straight and level and making propeller noises with your lips, see how far ya get.

Originally Posted by Dashing_Chap

The jet engine is there whether we like it or not, it's got nothing to do with fancy philosophical thought and language, just because we can hear it and understand it makes no difference whatsoever. It exists as a physical object outside of our physical experience as well as in it.

Try flying a glider straight and level and making propeller noises with your lips, see how far ya get.

Well my car works fine DC....brumm brrrrummmmm.... no petrol or diesel involved. Do keep up old boy!

Originally Posted by billybongo

Got to hand it to you BSL - you are the master of straw-clutching.

Only sound science BB. Always happy to be corrected on any straw bits.

Originally Posted by Higgs_bosun

Lost in fog....you don't know anything, can't do anything, no thoughts of your own, locked in limbo with only a delusion to keep you company. Nothing is real to you...except the delusion...

Except it isn't true. What he says and what he does have no relationship to each-other.

I wouldn't trust any adult who makes claims about reality being some sort of social/personal construct. If they actually believed that enough to live accordingly, they would not have survived childhood. Do you think they do not look before crossing a road because traffic does not exist outside their personal constructions? It is all just waffling bollocks.

Originally Posted by StickyEnd

Except it isn't true. What he says and what he does have no relationship to each-other.

I wouldn't trust any adult who makes claims about reality being some sort of social/personal construct. If they actually believed that enough to live accordingly, they would not have survived childhood. Do you think they do not look before crossing a road because traffic does not exist outside their personal constructions? It is all just waffling bollocks.

I see what you did there.

Reality NOT a personal construct, but mediated by language structures developed socially. A simple rejection of classical empiricism and naive realism.

Causal structures of nature exist but act independently of the conditions that allow us to have access to them.

Mechanisms and events are in the domain of the real but experiences are in the domain of the empirical.

The social activity of science create the social products we interact with.

Unless you're saying that the objects that appear to us are as they are in reality and there are no cognitive filters and social activity which mediates?

Science is a job of work of transforming experiences into knowledge.

You might wish to challenge the content here and avoid 'me the person' etc.

[QUOTE=StickyEnd;4401373...It is all just waffling bollocks.[/QUOTE]

Of course it's waffling bollox but it's a very 'clever' or 'sophisticated' bollox that requires a certain amount of intelligence not least for BSL to fool himself.

It's a bit like one of those optical illusions:



We all know it's not possible but it's difficult to 'explain' why. We all know BSL and his ilk (including themselves) are talking bolloxs but because their bolloxs has an internal logic they retreat further and further into that logic whilst disappearing up their own logical shutes. When we say it's bolloxs they ask us what they've said that is wrong? Each individual bit of what they say has a logic like only looking at 3 sides of the optical illusion - unless you look at the bigger picture you can't see that it's crap.

What is surprizing is that they can usually see the bigger picture when it's some one else's fantasy.