To be fair,in the 60's,and 70's,it was houses south of Holland Park Avenue,that were priced in the Millions. Most of those north of the Ave. (Ladbrooke Grove,Westbourne Park,Latimer Road),all the way up to Pembridge Villas,were either owned by,the Council,the Church of England,or that well philanthropist Peter Rachman,definitely not salubrious surroundings.

It was only from the 80's after the right to buy came in that the wealthy started to move 'down the hill' from Notting Hill Gate,and at that time Holland Park School was the only game in town for non-grammar types,they went to the Oratory,or the Sacred Heart in Hammersmith (even the Catholics had a price for Prods).

Sorry,to clear up any misunderstanding,Holland Park School is in Kensington,at the top of the actual Holland Park. Holland Park the area,is in fact in North Kensington/Notting Hill Gate,which has always been a bit bohemian,you know Jazz Musicians,Jimi Hendrix etc,also know for the first Porn Cinema outside Soho,just thought I would throw that in to add a bit of local colour.

Yes,it was my part of 'The Smoke',but I now live a more genteel life in the Patio,sorry I meant Garden of England....

Originally Posted by chocolate_frog

Perhaps we should go back to the schools...

And reinvent the wheels.

Stream teh kids using an exam (we could call it the 11+). Those that pass the test with distinction go on to what we could call 'grammar' schools. Which will teach them at a level that they can aspire to.

Those that only pass the test will go on in to more vocational training aimed at their capabilities.

Those that fail will go to special schools to develop them AND bring them to the same level of their peers in a bout the same time frame.

Progression through school wont neccesarily be based on age. If they are lagging the child can be left behind, if they are surging they can be moved forward. A lagging child who 'passed' the 11+ should be allowed to resit, and have the chance of entering the 'grammar' stream (at any age)

Finally, if a Head says the kid is expelled, the kid is fcuking expelled. Not this current drama, of can we, should we, let's ask the governers, let the kid have an appeal. Just like that, 'get teh fcuk off my school'. Headmaster would have a say in the entry of a pupil to the school too.

Of course some may well not be able to find a local school, due to their rep or reason for exclusion.

Special 'expulsion schools' can be set up to ensure these kids are catered for. Boarding of course, with no tele. Child benefit is automatically cut from the parents and diverted to the school. (might focus the parents minds a little). Poor attenders could end up here too.

Likewise if Chantelle-Brittney gets pregnant, either the parents come up with a plan to care and support her during schooling, or off to 'little slut' school where she, and offspring, can be cared for and developed in to a fine upstanding young mother. This would be a seperate site. Focusing on child care AND educational needs (which would not be stunted by the presence of the child).

The Grammar stream would be in the same building as the secondary, indeed the same school. Thus 'inclusion' would still be in effect. As would special needs schooling departments.

No child is leaving school with out at least an E in Maths, English and British Citizenship. Access to Dole would be based on attaining these most basic standards.

PT would be brought in with a vengence. ALL new schools built with leisure centres and provision for out of school activities such as Cadets, Scouts, etc.

School opens at 0630 with a 'breakfast club' for a bit of work and breakfast, Starts schooling (actual lessons) at 0800, and keep them roling to lunch. A mid-morning snack at the desk could be provided (glass of milk and a piece of fruit). School dinners start at 1300, where all the kids can tuck in to a nice, healthy lunch. School canteen could also provide healthy breakfasts and dinners for those staying after hours.
1400 sees school start and runs to 1530, then its time for... school sports, and extra curriculars. Band, remedial work, etc. 1800 sees the start of out of hours clubs (cadets etc) and the start of detention time.

There wont be any of this asking the parents if it is all right to detain the little darlings eitehr, phone call, 'your little sh1ts on detention tonight' end of.

Saturdays brings 'inter-school' competition. Where games of football and the like can be arrangd into leagues for the schools to compete in.

All in all, a rather splendid start to life. ANd scope to bring many more adults in to the 'education' world who may actually have done something other than 'school, uni, teach' route. Especially when we start looking at the sports heads, out of hours clubs and what not. Detentions could be handled by specifically selected adults... probably ex-RP staff :D they can bring their own three headed bumpers.

Oh, on the subject of which. Uniforms. Let's get them back. Smarter the better.

Ah yes, that golden age, when naughty boys got a "clip round the ear" from the friendly neighbourhood Bobby, Problem was, that was ALSO the era when cops routinely gained confessions by beating the shit out of suspects. The problem with passing laws is that they have "universal application": either cops CAN hit people, or they CAN'T. Easier to draft laws that say they CAN'T. Can't beat confessions out of people OR clip kids around the ear. The world - outside of education - is a very different place now to what it was in the 1950's, and that impacts on the world INSIDE education. It's reality: Get used to it.

Originally Posted by BigRonW

Ah yes, that golden age, when naughty boys got a "clip round the ear" from the friendly neighbourhood Bobby, Problem was, that was ALSO the era when cops routinely gained confessions by beating the shit out of suspects. The problem with passing laws is that they have "universal application": either cops CAN hit people, or they CAN'T. Easier to draft laws that say they CAN'T. Can't beat confessions out of people OR clip kids around the ear. The world - outside of education - is a very different place now to what it was in the 1950's, and that impacts on the world INSIDE education. It's reality: Get used to it.

No, I wont 'get used to it'.

Just giving the headmaster a framework in order to conduct discipline within the school would show effect from the off. And non of the above is 1950's... there are schools who practice the above NOW. There are countries who have schools for the rowdy and for 'gymslip' mums. Oddly enough that well known liberal haven Holland is one of the more keen users of the single mum centress.

If you are 'used to it' then I pity you, but don't come crying when you've been on the receiving end of the very different new world you have become ascustomed to.

Discipline; as this blog is related to the army side of things, would you say that there should be no discipline in schools?

Of course when you are talking about your own kids no one should discipline them but yourself, is that, or should that be the standard?

Can you imagine what the military; in what was once (but not now) probably the best military regime in the world have been, like if the rigid discipline was not rigidly enforced.

The British army was without doubt the best regimented and disciplined military force in the world in its day. Now; is that still the case?

Firm and accepted discipline is what makes a nation, a regime, a school, or indeed any kind of activity great, and that means football, cricket, rugby and of course the personal discipline of any individual person or system great.

History has shown on numerous occasions that it is the discipline of the people that has won, and that means the same as the kids in our schools, there is little or no discipline, we have succumbed to the individualistic whims of the self important members of our society who are of the same mind of the Chamberlainists who came back with his bit of paper waving in our faces “Peace in our time.” Rollocks, that statement cost millions of people their lives.

Sorry, but to be honest, there is no discipline in society at large, we have allowed our kids to leave school with nothing in their minds but ‘I will do my own thing.’ OK, I know that is not the universal feeling in the UK, but, the number of people now who are just playing the system has risen greatly over the years.

Example: in Manchester, the number of young people without jobs is approaching 50%, why?
It is simple, because they can get more money on the dole than they can get from working. Who is paying the dole, simple, the ones who were disciplined enough to go and get get work in the first place.

Would they be the same if they had been disciplined by their parents and the teachers etc at an early age?

OK. Many of the parents of these kids are the very same ones who had the same attitude towards discipline when they were at school. We have bread a nation of wasters, YES, ‘WE’ and we cannot blame anyone else but ourselves.

Me? I was fairly disciplinarian and I made sure that my children got their act in order, and no, they are not all doctors or super Whiz kids, but they were five girls who became Accountants, Police Officers, One who directs all of the criminal investigations in Oxfordshire, and one who owns her own Public House (she is my favourite) and another who is just the nicest person in the whole of the UK.

My cousin, she lives in Switzerland, her two sons and indeed their wives are so far ahead of their English cousins in every way and the reason is the discipline and genuine love of the system, both maternal and paternal that we lack so much in the UK. Personal loving an effective discipline is the answer.

Without discipline you have anarchy.

The UK is in decline, we have started to lag behind everyone else, and why? Easy, we lack the discipline.
So prove me wrong! Or by your silence prove me correct!

That is the sad thing Jockharvey.

We are selling our kids short on so much... starting with schooling.

By providing a framework in which discipline, self-respect and all that good stuff to do with the SOLID-C can flourish we are only makeing our country great... again.

School sports have become a joke, no one wins so everyone loses. Exam results are plain daft. If 95% of the country are pickingup A*s then we need to adjust the scores... A* should be for the top 5% or less.

Encouraging thought processes rather than learning by rote, activities such as command tasks, outwards bound or DofE should be the norm.

Our kids are our most precious resource, and we are failing them (IMHO).

You are so correct chocolate frog, but what we seem to forget is that what our own kids are and do affects all of our lives, in neglecting the basics we are simply producing a personal old age future of misery, it is our own fault, we cannot blame the children because that is the manner in which we made them!

We neglect our responsibilities to our offspring at our own personal cost.

In most of our lives we cannot have full knowledge of what our offspring get up top in class, but, we should know what the attitude of the teachers are, after all, We pay their wages!

Originally Posted by uncle_ho

Without googling I give you:
Naseby
Edge Hill
Freedom Field,Plymouth.

I will google now to check

Fixed that for you !

Originally Posted by Jockharvey

You are so correct chocolate frog, but what we seem to forget is that what our own kids are and do affects all of our lives, in neglecting the basics we are simply producing a personal old age future of misery, it is our own fault, we cannot blame the children because that is the manner in which we made them!

We neglect our responsibilities to our offspring at our own personal cost.

In most of our lives we cannot have full knowledge of what our offspring get up top in class, but, we should know what the attitude of the teachers are, after all, We pay their wages!

If you want to know what is going on in the school, refer to the National Curriculum and exam board syllabii, plus school policy documents. And if you want to know what the attitudes of your kids teachers are - talk to them. It's what parents evenings are for - a two way process - you don't just go to find out how little Jim is getting on. Get to know them. The kids do best when there is cooperation between home and school.

And if you want to know which school to send your kids to.....

Find out which school locally is the one that the teachers in the area get their own kids into. They'll know which ones are good and which ones are best avoided.

Originally Posted by abeaumont

The kids do best when there is cooperation between home and school.
.

Definitely not the case when Ofsted put your school into 'Special Measures'. Whole load of fun that was! Thankfully a massive revamp came about, but too late for me...shame as well, since my year at school was a "Guinea pig" year, and they tested out a load of new stuff on us. Fails all the way!

Yeah, I used to believe in the Sthi that I was told

Sorry, I was at the school, I know what happened at the school. It was not what the parents were told. Sorry, but get real, do you really believe all that is given to you?