Casual Nazism

**Grapevine** · 31-08-2010, 19:25

I never thought Niemoller was trying to show himself as a martyr. Instead he's trying to say: "Look, I was self-centered, stupid naive, because I believed it wouldn't happen to me. In the end, it did, and my protests were too little, too late." Yes, he was basically a hypocrite, and it bit him in the arse in the end. His message for future generations is: Freedom is a universal principle and idea that must apply across the board, not as a selfish right for yourself, or your group. If it's other groups being trampled on, you may not directly feel the sting, but the general idea of liberty is under attack - and thus your life is too as well.

I'm a straight white able-bodied male but I still think ethnic minorities, non-heterosexuals, etc should be treated with as much dignity (or lack thereof, in some parts of the human condition) as anybody else, not because I'm secretly a bisexual one-legged lesbian single mother from Hackney, but because freedom should be a universal principle.

**InVinoVeritas** · 31-08-2010, 19:28

Since when has wishing to uphold Magna Carta and The Bill of Rights ever been considered casual Nazism??? What actually smacks of nazism is the knee jerk reaction of the usual suspects when it comes to someone pointing out that he doesn't actually like the thought of being ruled by unelected Eurocrats.

How can wishing for self determination and the return of REAL democracy come anywhere near Nazis and their Genocide?

One can only assume my pointing out that our political classes continue to commity crimes against common law has hit home with certain sections of arrse.

Apparantly it is now nazism to campaign for proper and accountable parliamentary democracy in England.

As ever the forces of darkness resort to character assasination and ridicule when they lose the moral and legal argument.

The fact is that Cuddles and his cohorts realise the illegality of the actions of the political classes, they are also oathbreakers and their words on arrse are clearly as worthless as the Oath they once swore to defend their country.

They call me a Nazi yet it is they who behave like internet Lord Haw Haw's.

**InVinoVeritas** · 31-08-2010, 19:32

Well done Cuddles...absolutely amazing.... Magna Carta and The Bill of Rights now equates to Mein Kampf.

So do you get EU money for your posts or are you merely the lunatic product of labour social engineering?

Or were you starved of oxygen at birth?

**midnight** · 31-08-2010, 19:37

Originally Posted by Spanny

The qoute is an example of the stomach churning hypocrasy that went on in Nazi Germany in general and the Church in particular . Niemoller like many Christian clergy was opposed to the Nazis not because they were war mongers and mass murderers but because they wanted to unite Christianity in the Nazi state . Like certain places like the West of Scotland and Northern Ireland the church didn't think of themselves as being the one homogeneous mass but were protestants and catholics . Under the Nazis people were to stop being protestants and catholics and were to be come christians something both churches in Germany were opposed to and Niemoller was the most outspoken clerical critic of this Nazi interference . He wasn't a critic of Nazism per se . If I remember I read somewhere he offered to join the Navy whilst imprisoned in 1941 . His request was turned down . Let's not paint this hypocrite as some sort of martyr . He wasn't

Most of the Top Nazi´s followed some kind of wierd `Ayran`Cult and had little time for Christianity unless it suited their needs,they got the Church on their side by introducing ´Kirchensteuer`or Church Tax which is still paid today and is one of the few countries in the World where the Government collects it straight out of your wages! There is an opt out clause though.Using the Church records of marriages and deaths etc knew who to look for when weeding out jews so the Church carries quite a bit of guilt when it comes to the holocaust,lots of pics on the internet of German Priests and even Bishops wearing swastikas.

**smartascarrots** · 31-08-2010, 19:45

Originally Posted by maguire

whats wrong with good old fashioned bomber jackets, thats what I want to know.

It became too hard to get to Orlando in them after 9/11.

Casual Nazism, eh? It sounds like the sort of 'lifestyle choice' associated with unsavoury beastliness of the Jersey orphanage variety.

**HectortheInspector** · 31-08-2010, 20:04

Just out of curiosity, are 'casual' Nazis obliged to fill out a P46? Do they get paid more than 'full time' Nazis, but have less job security?
If they are only part-time, then they could usefully join the Communist Party of Great Britain (which needs the membership nowadays) and simply become self employed genocidal bigots.

**Hot-Crumpet** · 31-08-2010, 20:19

IVV, you want to uphold Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights, and promote real democracy? Because the first two and the latter are hardly mutually inclusive.

From the Magna Carta:

If one who has borrowed from the Jews any sum, great or small, die before that loan be repaid, the debt shall not bear interest while the heir is under age, of whomsoever he may hold; and if the debt fall into our hands, we will not take anything except the principal sum contained in the bond. And if anyone die indebted to the Jews, his wife shall have her dower and pay nothing of that debt; and if any children of the deceased are left under age, necessaries shall be provided for them in keeping with the holding of the deceased; and out of the residue the debt shall be paid, reserving, however, service due to feudal lords; in like manner let it be done touching debts due to others than Jews.

Wouldn't want those bloody Jews to fuck us over with their shifty loans. Typical!

As for the Bill of Rights, I know a lot of Arrsers loved their guns, and of course the Bill of Rights guaranteed them to us! As long as you went to the right church, of course:

That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law

And it spoke bravely of our right to just trials, not by that rabble of renting peasants, of course:

jurors which pass upon men in trials for high treason ought to be freeholders

I'm not entirely rubbishing them. They're interesting historical documents and amazing pieces for their time. They should be revered as important milestones in the long road to the level of liberty that we enjoy in the UK today. But the idea that you want to "uphold" a document that's several hundreds of years old as the basis for law in a modern country smacks of sentimental Americanism or religious ignorance. Today's governing shouldn't be decided by men that are long dead and buried.

**Accidental_discharge** · 31-08-2010, 20:45

Originally Posted by StrainOfCommand

What always bothered me about this quote - and most literature on WWII -was that they completely ignore the Nazi's persecution of the Disabled. The Nazis began routing disabled members of society with their eugenics policies as soon as they came to power. And these were 'their own' - for want of a better term - as well as 'their enemies.'

The Eugenics policies of pre-war Germany had been drawn directly from those policies already in existence in N. America. Alberta instituted a eugenics policy in 1928, the Sexual Sterilization Act of Alberta, a four-person Alberta Eugenics Board was created. These four individuals were responsible for approving sterilization procedures. In 1972, the Sexual Sterilization Act was repealed, and the Eugenics Board dismantled. During the 43 years of the Eugenics Board, it approved nearly 5,000 individual sterilizations, and 2,832 procedures were actually performed.and what is not widely known, is that these policies continued on into the 1970s, and were directed at the same population group. Granted the broader minded Alberta goverment stopped short of euthanizing these individuals.

The province of Alberta was the first part of the British Empire to adopt a sterilization act, and were the only ones who vigorously implemented it. The Western provinces, British Columbia, Alberta, and Saskatchewan, were close to the United States and highly influenced by American trends - during early debates regarding a sexual sterilization bill in Alberta, there were many references made to the U.S. legislation. Canada was rapidly becoming populated by immigrants, and the theme of Eugenics was emerging - supported by sponsors such as J.S. Woodsworth, Emily Murphy, Helen MacMurchy, Louise McKinney, Irene Palby, Nellie McClung, and the president of the University of Alberta, Dr. R.C. Wallace. In Alberta, Eugenics had seemingly positive intentions with the goal of bettering the gene pool (I have heard that before).
Almost 3 000 people were sterilized under Alberta's Sterilization Act. Many more were not released from confinement because they would not consent to sterilization. Even in 1972, the year the Act was finally repealed, fifty-five people were sterilized for their "danger of transmission to the progeny of mental deficiency" and for being "incapable of intelligent parenthood".

**jumpinjarhead** · 31-08-2010, 20:47

Originally Posted by Spanny

The qoute is an example of the stomach churning hypocrasy that went on in Nazi Germany in general and the Church in particular . Niemoller like many Christian clergy was opposed to the Nazis not because they were war mongers and mass murderers but because they wanted to unite Christianity in the Nazi state . Like certain places like the West of Scotland and Northern Ireland the church didn't think of themselves as being the one homogeneous mass but were protestants and catholics . Under the Nazis people were to stop being protestants and catholics and were to be come christians something both churches in Germany were opposed to and Niemoller was the most outspoken clerical critic of this Nazi interference . He wasn't a critic of Nazism per se . If I remember I read somewhere he offered to join the Navy whilst imprisoned in 1941 . His request was turned down . Let's not paint this hypocrite as some sort of martyr . He wasn't

Not exactly accurate, at least according to scholarly sources. Niemöller, origin of famous quotation "First they came for the Communists..."

He certainly was no enemy of them early on, however. The principle of his statement (and there is also debate about exactly what things he cited) is to me the real point and humbling caution to all of us since rationalization and appeasement are such attractive and nearly narcotic temptations when the alternative may be to risk one's own well being.

**smartascarrots** · 31-08-2010, 20:48

Originally Posted by HectortheInspector

Just out of curiosity, are 'casual' Nazis obliged to fill out a P46? Do they get paid more than 'full time' Nazis, but have less job security?

I suspect they just get called up to support enduring bigotry when the regular Nazis are overstretched. A sort of Last Territorial Demand in Europe Army.

**jumpinjarhead** · 31-08-2010, 20:49

Originally Posted by Accidental_discharge

The Eugenics policies of pre-war Germany had been drawn directly from those policies already in existence in N. America. Alberta instituted a eugenics policy in 1928, the Sexual Sterilization Act of Alberta, a four-person Alberta Eugenics Board was created. These four individuals were responsible for approving sterilization procedures. In 1972, the Sexual Sterilization Act was repealed, and the Eugenics Board dismantled. During the 43 years of the Eugenics Board, it approved nearly 5,000 individual sterilizations, and 2,832 procedures were actually performed.and what is not widely known, is that these policies continued on into the 1970s, and were directed at the same population group. Granted the broader minded Alberta goverment stopped short of euthanizing these individuals.

The province of Alberta was the first part of the British Empire to adopt a sterilization act, and were the only ones who vigorously implemented it. The Western provinces, British Columbia, Alberta, and Saskatchewan, were close to the United States and highly influenced by American trends - during early debates regarding a sexual sterilization bill in Alberta, there were many references made to the U.S. legislation. Canada was rapidly becoming populated by immigrants, and the theme of Eugenics was emerging - supported by sponsors such as J.S. Woodsworth, Emily Murphy, Helen MacMurchy, Louise McKinney, Irene Palby, Nellie McClung, and the president of the University of Alberta, Dr. R.C. Wallace. In Alberta, Eugenics had seemingly positive intentions with the goal of bettering the gene pool (I have heard that before).
Almost 3 000 people were sterilized under Alberta's Sterilization Act. Many more were not released from confinement because they would not consent to sterilization. Even in 1972, the year the Act was finally repealed, fifty-five people were sterilized for their "danger of transmission to the progeny of mental deficiency" and for being "incapable of intelligent parenthood".

It should also be kept in mind that eugenics is a creation of the progressive movement (much of it came from America) and was conveniently used by Hitler. http://www.princeton.edu/~tleonard/p...ospectives.pdf

**filthyphil** · 31-08-2010, 21:14

Originally Posted by Mr_Fingerz

Nope, just a general observation. I suspect that Mr Innuit will do an awful lot better in the arctic, than the average european will. As for the quantum butterfly, I'll leave that to Mr Pratchett.

At this very moment, some bloke called Nanook is sitting outside his igloo telling his mates that a Brit sitting at his computer is better placed than them to survive in Manchester. They're all making "wanker" gestures behind his back and sniggering.

**ScouseD** · 31-08-2010, 21:32

Originally Posted by Cuddles

I would like to offer up a vote of thanks to In Vino Veritas. Or as I like to think of him Sir Roderick Spode...

Damn right, and I for one am not afraid to stand my ground and call a Spode a Spode.

Beware though. Anyone who dares point out that IVV/Spode is a grotesque hate-filled clown is clearly a communist traitor and will hang come the day of reckoning. England is going to be a very lonely place afterwards.

He needs to learn to relax like a proper Englishman – with a nice cup of tea. Indian or Chinese. The choice is his.