Thread: Romanian Gypsy "Outreach Worker" convicted of benefits fraud

Originally Posted by jagman

Hardly fair MiT
Biped is as entitled to his personal opinion as much as the next man. Sponsorship is not pertinent to that.

Originally Posted by Markintime

You often express your views on immigration and Islam etc and you manage to do so without racist comments or racial stareotyping, if you can do it why is it so outrageous to expect others to show the same restraint?

To be fair, I am guilty of stereotyping. I am firmly of the opinion that there are 3 ranks of people in the world-
Top of the heap are Britons
A close second are Commonwealth citizens (but not all of them)
A distant third are everyone else.

To be entirely honest that is only half in jest. But I do try to think carefully how I express my opinion, if I was speaking face to face rather than having the pause created by having to type what I say on a forum I would probably come accross a little more bluntly.

As to the BNP or UAF, as much as I may passionatley disagree with what they have to say, they have the right to say it. That is what freedom and democray is all about. As much as they have the freedom toepress their respective opinions so does Biped, as does anyone else who's opinion may be controversial or even distateful (not that I am accusing Biped of either)
Stifling or silencing opinion with political correctness here in the UK in the last decade has turned this country into a right mess. Debate is the answer to all disagreements and differences of opinion. Only by debate can we reach logical conclusions and take this country forward. Therefor I am all for open expression of opinion and debate of those opinions, no matter how dfferent those opinions might be.

For example, I might dislike Nick Griffin and his goons with great passion but I listen to what he has to say. I formulate my own opinion and freely express it, arguments ensue (like here on Arrse) and we all learn from it. Myself included.

One of the wonders of the internet age is that we have an ability to debate and argue on a scale not available before, its a wonderful thing!

Originally Posted by Pigshyt_Freeman

Sounded to me like a suggestion I obey the same rules you seek to impose on Biped.

Well I didn't and I don't. I made a remark about Biped which I've now retracted. How does that make me a tout?

Originally Posted by Markintime

Well I didn't and I don't. I made a remark about Biped which I've now retracted. How does that make me a tout?

Then I apologise, and withdraw the suggestion. Here you go:

Attachment 33733

Originally Posted by Chef

Surely the reason stereotypes exist is because of past experience? I'm sure that somewhere in the British Isles there are pikey campsites that have planning permision, aren't surrounded by hundreds of empty wallets and handbags, and where the local crime rate has gone down since their arrival.
I am equally sure that those who protest about stereotyping would be overjoyed if twenty caravans rolled up one bank holiday Friday at 17.00hrs at a field or park within walking distance of their home.
Certainly in liberal Hampstead when they moved onto the Heath, the liberal lawyers of the area united and had them out in record time, they left behind them about twenty skips worth of rubbish, a local crime wave that ended the moment they left, and fond memories of their colouful culture.

I've just had exactly that happen except they've now moved from nearby land (owned by a hotel) to the site of my son's old school. There is a perfectly adequate (well, if they hadn't left it in such a shite state when they last vacated it) official site not half a mile from the hotel land they initially moved to.
I don't disagree with you that groups of gypsies are associated with certain social problems, they are and if they move on to private land they should be moved on. Any member of the community who commits a crime should be punished but that doesn't mean that it's right to be openly hostile to them or to tar them all with the same brush. I used to absolutely hate it when someone assumed that soldiers were all the same (in a negative way) and would disassociate myself from loud-mouthed troublemakers who thought being a soldier gave them carte-blanche to act as they pleased. I didn't even hate all RMP for goodness sake, I should be canonised!

Originally Posted by jagman

To be fair, I am guilty of stereotyping. I am firmly of the opinion that there are 3 ranks of people in the world-
Top of the heap are Britons
A close second are Commonwealth citizens (but not all of them)
A distant third are everyone else.

To be entirely honest that is only half in jest. But I do try to think carefully how I express my opinion, if I was speaking face to face rather than having the pause created by having to type what I say on a forum I would probably come accross a little more bluntly.

As to the BNP or UAF, as much as I may passionatley disagree with what they have to say, they have the right to say it. That is what freedom and democray is all about. As much as they have the freedom toepress their respective opinions so does Biped, as does anyone else who's opinion may be controversial or even distateful (not that I am accusing Biped of either)
Stifling or silencing opinion with political correctness here in the UK in the last decade has turned this country into a right mess. Debate is the answer to all disagreements and differences of opinion. Only by debate can we reach logical conclusions and take this country forward. Therefor I am all for open expression of opinion and debate of those opinions, no matter how dfferent those opinions might be.

For example, I might dislike Nick Griffin and his goons with great passion but I listen to what he has to say. I formulate my own opinion and freely express it, arguments ensue (like here on Arrse) and we all learn from it. Myself included.

One of the wonders of the internet age is that we have an ability to debate and argue on a scale not available before, its a wonderful thing!

Can you point out where I said that he should be stifled or stopped from posting? I made a remark that implied criticism but that does not mean I'm trying to stifle his right to free expression.

I fully retracted the remark, I realise that it has prompted some interesting debate, especially from you and that can't be a bad thing. On forums like this it is good that things are challenged. It gives everyone the chance to hear both sides of an argument and make up their own mind. I don't have a monopoly on right, I am an Englishman and a CMT which does confer upon me certain God-like qualities but even I reserve the right to occasionally appear to be wrong.

I'm a furriner, a racist b*stard seffrican. When I pitched up in sunny Blighty (No, I'm not on benefits of any kind), I was amazed at the antagonism toward the "travellers". It was almost as strong as back home. I spent time defending their right to live in the manner that they do, until one day I passed a local park. There were some horses grazing, and some travllers's caravans nearby. Idyllic, I thought. The next weekend I passed the same park. The horses and caravans were gone, but there was what can only be described as a dump of scrap. This park is about a city block away from the city's recycling centre, whre they will take ANYTHING smaller than a car. Apparently it took about £10,000 of council money top clean up the mess that perhaps four families had caused in less than a week.

Since then, I;m very much more circumspect i.r.o. defending their "rights" to a nomadic life-style.

I live and work in Central Europe.

Roma. A few facts (and some massive generalisations).

Roma were imported into Europe by the Turks during their failed attempts to conquer Europe (they were stopped outside Vienna several hundred years ago). Roma came from Northern India (where they were also hated). Traditionally they come in 3 'flavours':

1. Subsistence farmer/labourer/artisan.
2. Musician.
3. Criminal.

In Hungary, Slovakia and Romania there are huge populations of Roma: most are type 1 and stay in their little villages on the edge of society. They have nothing the local Magyars or Slavs need and the Magyars and Slavs have nothing the Roma can afford so there is almost no interaction.

Tourists to the region normally only meet type 2 (in expensive restaurants). These are the Roma 'royalty'. Often exceptionally gifted musicians and often very wealthy. Most are fully assimilated into normal culture. Nice houses, kids go to good schools, tax is paid, etc.

Type 3 is the kind that most locals meet: thieves breaking into their house, pickpockets, beggars in organised gangs (I can see a team from my office window right now working the traffic lights), thugs, drug dealers... well you get the picture.

As such whenever a local Hungarian/Slovak/Romanian meets a gypsy, it is normally an extremely unpleasant experience because they never meet the poor sods out in the middle of nowhere farming their little bit of land: they only ever meet Type 3. When Romania joined the EU all the Roma Type 2 and Type 3 upped sticks and moved to Italy, France, etc. Result? Crime in Romania plummeted by over 50% in under 18 months. Don't take my word for it: do a bit of googling for the Romanian crime figures. Why didn't Type 1 move? Because they couldn't afford it. They have almost nothing.

Funnily enough crimes such as rape, robbery, burglary (and any viscous petty crime) has almost doubled in Italy during the same period. Again dig out the official figures. Coincidence? Not a bit.

Yes, there are Hungarians in Hungarian jails, and Englishmen in English jails: every society has its dregs and scum. However where the Roma truly excel is the depravity of their crimes AS PART OF THEIR CULTURE. When a nonce is caught in the UK he/it will get hell in jail from the normal lags. Type 3 Roma are quite happy breaking a child’s legs in order for them to make more money begging. Type 1 Roma consider it normal to sell their kids to Type 3 (they don’t like to do it, but they will for cash). Type 1 and 3 consider it perfectly normal to kill someone over an imagined slight or feud.

To the bleeding heart brigade who think that I'm being racist: it is people like you who scream "racist" that condemn Type 1 (the vast majority of Roma) to their existence by refusing to acknowledge the existence of Type 3. Over the last 10 years I have not had a single positive experience with Roma.

When I was in Kosovo (2005/6) with the UN, there were 3 Roma camps north of the Ibar river in Mitrovica. Roma kids were dropping dead at an alarming rate. The 3 camps stood on the site of spoil from the old lead factory in the town, and we thought that the lead levels would have something to do with it. Sure enough, samples from the camp showed that lead levels were over 1,000 times acceptable levels: enough to be commercially viable as a mine.

As anyone who has been there knows, the entire valley suffers from lead pollution: most of the town of Mitrovica is over 40x accepted EU levels. So why the spikes at the 3 Roma camps, and not in the land around them?

When we (UNMIC, KPCC, UNHCR, KFOR) approached the 3 chiefs of the camps and offered them a new camp (a former French Army base) a few km away they refused. The camp would have given every family of the 3 old camps: 2 large corrimecs with running water and electricity 24hours a day (better than 95% of Kosovo) FOR FREE. There would be central washing facilities for clothing (industrial machines, again provided for free), security from Albanian Kosovans (as there was a KFOR base 1km away), the opportunity for employment at the nearby KFOR and UNMIC bases and education for the kids.

It was all rejected. Why? The answer was simple: once a month a HGV from Serbia would drop off a full load (40’ container) of old car batteries (illegally). The eldest son would prise off the top of the batteries, another kid would pour the acid out. When I say this, I mean the kid would literally pour the acid out over the threshold of their hut and onto the ground. The lead would then be taken out and (wait for it)… melted over a burner in their kitchens. No fume extractors, no safety, nothing.

Moving to the new camp would deprive the 3 leaders of the money they got for the lead, and the Roma families didn’t want to move because they didn’t believe the reason why their kids were dying was lead: they preferred to blame the Albanians.

Nice.

In summary: recognise that there is a problem within Roma society that leads to very high crime levels. Don't pretend that they are all simply misunderstood and crime is a result of poverty (another 'liberal' falsehood). Then do something about it. Locking them up for ever, putting them in the gas chambers, etc won't work (already tried by an Austrian gentleman). So what will work?

I don't know. I know that being touchy feely and sticking your head in the sand doesn't work, hasn't worked and never will work. Maybe a combination of (forced) education of their children (most Roma don't go to school), training for adults and a zero tolerance to crime.

For at least 40 years.

Originally Posted by Dread

Maybe a combination of (forced) education of their children (most Roma don't go to school), training for adults and a zero tolerance to crime.

For at least 40 years.

Changing a culture, even a culture of ignorance, crime and brutality, is the sort of thing that bleeding-hearts now refer to as 'cultural genocide.'

Well, I'm rather pleased I've furthered this debate somewhat. MiT, did you happen to hear the zip-zip-zip of the very point of the 'fucking racists' remark I made go flying past the top of your head?

Unfortuately, just like a certain narcoleptic cretin, whenever someone mentions a 'group' of people of any particular 'culture' in a slightly disparaging manner, the same old suspects raise the same old hue and cry - in denouncing anyone who questions the behaviour of a culture or ethnic group as whole as being 'RACISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!'. This said in the hope that it will flatten any argument being posited. It's a bit like shouting 'LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!' whenever you hear something you don't like.

Here's one that will blow your logic fuse: I can't stand the behvaiour of Pakistanis because 'as a country' they tend to be militant, devious, and cause too much grief over a: their religion and b: Kashmir, but I've got one hell of a lot of time for Indians. Racist? Surely not, they're of the same race. Culturalist? Yep. Guess what . . . . there's no law against it, and it's a valid point to make.

I fcuking hate pikeys.

I always have and I always will. Sorry but there is too much bad blood between Cuddles, the wider clan MacCuddles and the stinking thieving sh1t in a buckets. They allegedly owe me 1000 pheasant poults and a brand new window cleaning machine. I might know something about a few pounds of granulated and a brand new Ford Transit and Mitusbishi pick up which don't go so good no more.

Hitler's gypsy policy was proof that not everyone is 100% bad...and he was kind to dogs too. Like me. Which is why the RSPCA paid a thorough visit to a local pikey camp - apparently if you call their dog fighting hotline, from a telephone box, they take it very seriously!

To be fair, most of the pikey bastards that appear in the news digging up green belt land without planning permission and fouling large areas of the country aren't Roma gypsies. They're that other vermin - the Oirish traveller.

"Want your drive re-tarmaced Mister? Only £1000 the lot". "OK, you don't, right then, better book the glazier to repair the windows that'll be smashed by tomorrow morning, top of the morning to ya".

Originally Posted by Biped

Well, I'm rather pleased I've furthered this debate somewhat. MiT, did you happen to hear the zip-zip-zip of the very point of the 'fucking racists' remark I made go flying past the top of your head?

Unfortuately, just like a certain narcoleptic cretin, whenever someone mentions a 'group' of people of any particular 'culture' in a slightly disparaging manner, the same old suspects raise the same old hue and cry - in denouncing anyone who questions the behaviour of a culture or ethnic group as whole as being 'RACISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!'. This said in the hope that it will flatten any argument being posited. It's a bit like shouting 'LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!' whenever you hear something you don't like.

Here's one that will blow your logic fuse: I can't stand the behvaiour of Pakistanis because 'as a country' they tend to be militant, devious, and cause too much grief over a: their religion and b: Kashmir, but I've got one hell of a lot of time for Indians. Racist? Surely not, they're of the same race. Culturalist? Yep. Guess what . . . . there's no law against it, and it's a valid point to make.

Full of hot air.

I didn't call you a racist or didn't you notice that?

Originally Posted by CrashTestDummy

To be fair, most of the pikey bastards that appear in the news digging up green belt land without planning permission and fouling large areas of the country aren't Roma gypsies. They're that other vermin - the Oirish traveller.

"Want your drive re-tarmaced Mister? Only £1000 the lot". "OK, you don't, right then, better book the glazier to repair the windows that'll be smashed by tomorrow morning, top of the morning to ya".

There's a new variation on this round my way.

They'll set up encampment on your golf course/stately home/grouse moor and offer to move on for several thousand quid. If you decline, there'll be no end of human rights lawyers, Marxist councillors and MPs ready to support the pikeys in their battle against the evil toffs. It'll take years to get them evicted as it goes all the way to the Supreme Court.

Met teams up with Romania in fight against child trafficking
Ken Hyder and Rob Singh
24.09.08


Scotland Yard is teaming up with Romanian police in a £1 million operation to smash child trafficking into Britain.

The team, financed by the European Commission, will be based in Westminster - the scene of intense criminal activity involving children exploited by Roma gipsy gangs.

Police estimate that each child can earn the gangs up to £100,000 a year, and the trade in children is worth £1 billion a year in total.

It is estimated that at any one time about 1,000 trafficked children are taking part in Fagin-style criminal schemes on British streets. They are forced to beg, steal handbags and mobile phones, and pick pockets.

Some of the Roma gangs are also behind fake-ATM thefts in which millions of pounds are stolen by hijacking customers' card details.

The team of Met and Romanian officers and analysts will be aided by the UK Border Agency and the UK Human Trafficking Centre.

Since the country joined the EU in January last year, Romanian-linked crime in Britain has gone up by more than 700 per cent. Police raided 15 houses in Slough this year after an eight-month investigation codenamed Operation Caddy.

Of the 211 people occupying them, 33 were aged 10 to 17, and 74 were under 10. One month after the raids, pick-pocketing in Westminster had plummeted 160 per cent.

The children were rescued and some were handed back to their families while others were taken into care.

Westminster Superintendent Bernie Gravett stressed: "Of course it's not all Romanians who are here who are causing this problem. It's Roma exploiting Roma.

"The aim is to bring people to justice for human trafficking and exploitation of vulnerable members of the Roma community.

"We will be seeking to disrupt organised crime networks in any way, prosecuting key individuals here and in Romania. We will be tracing, seizing and confiscating criminal gains."

The project will also devise ways of rehabilitating and protecting children exploited by gangs.

Children being used for crime are taught a variety of techniques to steal credit cards, cash and phones. "Hugger muggers" specialise in singing and dancing to distract, before hugging their target and removing items from pockets. "Table surfers" enter pubs and restaurants and remove belongings left sitting on furniture.

Babies are also used to distract attention from would-be victims.

Police in Westminster first identified the problem in 2004. The gangs were well organised - children said they were under 10 to avoid prosecution. One girl, later proved to be 14, had been detained over 400 times.

Met teams up with Romania in fight against child trafficking | News

I found a Roma who expertly fitted a new run of drainpipes for me. Did the job on time and at the agreed [cheap] price. Is he one in a hundred thousand? I suspect he is...... as Dread said, here in Hungary they live on the edge of society, don't mix and are, putting mildly, generally disliked. When the bulk rubbish, [which means anything bigger than a trabant but smaller than a house] is put out twice a year, the Roma descend on the villages/towns like a well organized army [controlled by a leader in his Merc] taking/stripping everything like a hoard of locusts. There is an unwritten [obviously] law in my village that Roma cannot buy property ........................ possibly racist but works for us. It's a bit like a throwback to the '50's in Devon/Cornwall villages................. viewed with suspicion and not welcome.