Thread: Safe Streets ? My experiance yesterday

Originally Posted by CaptainPlume

Originally Posted by gobbyidiot

Did you see "The Force" last week? Inspector (I think) in charge of a murder investigation has to ask whether failing to report an accident is an offence, and doesn't mind doing this on camera.

Not Plod-bashing here, but I find this & the response to it interesting. I didn't see the programme in question & this is a genuine request for information.

Was the failure to report thing about an RTA? If so I'd hardly expect that to be a complicated piece of law understood only by traffic police. You & I are expected to know it & would have the book thrown at us if we didn't; surely we should expect a relatively senior police officer to do so too?

After all we were calling for Harridan Harperson's head a week or so ago for her failure to stop/report...

IIRC, the incident in question involved driving into someone's front wall by a country road. No other vehicles/people were involved, which was why the question was raised. Had this not been related to a murder, no-one would have given a crap.

edit- my video chopped off the last 5 minutes. Did the barsteward admit it or what?

Gobby - You're full of sh1t and you won't listen, I don't know where you think you have gained your authentic experience on the subject but it must be on another planet.

There is more to the Police than meets the eye and not everyone who gives Summary Justice to a chav gets in bother as the media have you believing. People who take the p1ss and go too far get locked up and rightly so as if a bobby did it people like you would have a fit if they weren't sacked and buried alive.

If the soldier was within his right to defend himself then fine. If he got Judo on the chavs arrse and started leathering him the he needs punishing. Although I can confidently say without doubt that 90% of Police officers would extend the same courtesy to a soldier in uniform as they would another police officer as the vast majority see soldiers, sailors and airmen as very disciplined crown servants who are to be respected. Hence the Poppy appeal pot in our briefing room has been supplemented by its second coffee jar.

They also don't forget the little things such as the medic who ran over and helped the bobby getting a kicking off Rangers fans. A point which was raised during my last public order course and which everyone was reminded about when they Help For Heroes Tin went round.

(Disclaimer: Bobbies in Garrison towns tend not to have their head in the clouds re soldiers as they see what happens when you get them drunk and wind them up)

Originally Posted by Magdovus

Originally Posted by CaptainPlume

Originally Posted by gobbyidiot

Did you see "The Force" last week? Inspector (I think) in charge of a murder investigation has to ask whether failing to report an accident is an offence, and doesn't mind doing this on camera.

Not Plod-bashing here, but I find this & the response to it interesting. I didn't see the programme in question & this is a genuine request for information.

Was the failure to report thing about an RTA? If so I'd hardly expect that to be a complicated piece of law understood only by traffic police. You & I are expected to know it & would have the book thrown at us if we didn't; surely we should expect a relatively senior police officer to do so too?

After all we were calling for Harridan Harperson's head a week or so ago for her failure to stop/report...

IIRC, the incident in question involved driving into someone's front wall by a country road. No other vehicles/people were involved, which was why the question was raised. Had this not been related to a murder, no-one would have given a crap.

edit- my video chopped off the last 5 minutes. Did the barsteward admit it or what?

He admited it to his cell mate whilst on remand and then hung himself

Originally Posted by Closet_Jibber

Gobby - You're full of sh1t and you won't listen. I give in.

I'm tempted to say, "Like, whadevverrrrrr: google "mooting", and recognise that (much like watching starships on fire off the shoulder of Orion), it's something you'll never experience".

But christ, this is the kind of sh*t that puts Arrse on its arse. Nothing will put a bullet in an internet bulletin board better than people investing their identities in their postings.

This is kibbitzing dude

You don't know me and I don't know you. I haven't annoyed you by not listening, I've annoyed you by reading things closely, and you think an implication of that is that you've somehow lost........what, face, money, the good opinion of...........who exactly?

Any number of people have noted the change in police culture that followed the panda car and the personal radio. My suggestion is that the attitude cops have to their powers - and the respective powers of citizens - also supports that thesis. Cops find it completely counterintuitive that a citizen could ever have more power than they do.

Just as you (seem) to. I mean, do even you think that this thread is is evidence for my not "listening" (ie paying attention)?

The Americans say, "Live free, or die". The motto for W2 should be, "Provide meaningful content or log off; in a cream puff if needs be" :D

Originally Posted by Micawber

Blah blah blah.

Do you really think that is what I think anyone should do? Or what I beleive will happen? Obvously it will if so minded lawyers get involved, and the samariton appears to be the one that usually gets stuffed by the authorities.... gran poking a teenager?, man telling chav scum to get off wall or stop smashing up his car? Can't really be bothered to look for the examples, but there does seem to be a trend for people finding themselves in court defending what should have been spotted for what it was in the first place, and nothing further said by the Police or CPS>

Is not more shocking that we should be in a position where such actions are neccesary?

I disagree with your assessment of Tony Martin. He had been harrasedand intimidated by scum, and driven to his wits end. The Police did nothing.

Something was happen in the end.

Why wasn't young innocent fred barrass arrested and banged up for his previous crimes? Or the Fagin like older males who took him on his final job?

PS This is t'internet mate, don't pretend to know by true beleifs by what I post on ArRSe. I like to bate people.

He he.

Originally Posted by gaijin

Originally Posted by Werewolf

Originally Posted by gaijin

Originally Posted by CaptainPlume

Originally Posted by gaijin

Just one of the reasons that I love living in Tokyo, these sorts of things simply do not happen here.

Yes, as Japanese society is inherently conformist.

OK, the salarymen drink themsleves into a gutter-collapsing, hog-whimperingly drunken mess & the teens have some pretty wierd dress-sense, but there is still an underlying climate of respect (rather than "respeck") for their elders, society etc.

I'm prepared to be corrected if I have an overly rose-tinted view based on my limited experience in Tokyo...

No, you are pretty bang on. They are conformist but, I suspect, that the reason that the salarymen get so massively drunk like they do is because it is the only release they get, either at home or work, and is the only way that they can express themselves. Whatever happens in the bar or at the karaoke stays there, the next day it is business as usual and whatever happened the night before is no longer mentioned.

But however drunk they get there is never any agression. It is perfectly safe to walk around Tokyo at any time of the night and not worry about some drunken gobshite having a pop just because he thinks he can.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does'nt the attitude of the Japanese police also play a part? I seem to remember reading that the Japanese coppers are very polite and respectful of citizens...right up until the citizen commits an arrestable offence, at which point the cops get Samurai on his ass.

A bit like the late Mr Swayze's lines in Roadhouse: "I want you to be nice...until it's time to NOT be nice."

The Japanese police are useless at most times. The uniformed variant are little more than traffic cops and directions givers. They will also stop and search people on the street (especially if you are not Japanese or 'professional looking' westerner). I saw one last night at a crossroads, he was a big fat old boy and he was stopping cyclists to warn them about having no lights. More than one person just sailed on past him at full speed whilst he huffed and puffed in indignation. It was actually very funny.

Plenty of them are corrupt and in the pay of local Yakuza so a blind eye is given to many activities, especially dodgy hostess bars etc. They may mount a token raid or two but not on the Yakuza clubs obviously. It is said, for this reason, that Roppongi police station is the most lucrative posting that a policeman can receive.

You are right though, if you are arrested for something then you should be worried. There is a 99% conviction rate here - which has little to do with guilt in many cases. You can be held for 23 days without being charged - and this can be extended to 28 I believe. I know 2 guys who have been arrested and they will hold you for the full 23 days regardless (both were released without charge after the full 23). They tell me that immense pressure is put upon you to sign a confession (in Japanese) - after which its a done deal.
I am reliably told that a Japanese prison is really not somewhere that you want to be either. They are highly regimented, work is compulosry for 8 hours a day (during which time you cannot speak to anybody else), cells are shared and cramped - smokers get one 10 min smoke break a day - and the lights are on 24 hours. Speaking in any other languange than Japanese (including with visitors) is prohibited. If you do not speak the language then tough.

British prisons could learn a lot

Thanks, Gaijin. Opened my eyes.

Does Tokyo still have a Nails Riot Police? They used to have a fearsome reputation; recruits had to study a Japanese Martial Art, like Yoshinkan Aikido, full time for a year before they could start their duties.

As I understand it, the point of the training was not so much to learn martial arts as to push the recruits to their physical and mental limits. Instructors were free to beast the Riot Police recruits as much as they liked.

I liked the SA Police in Jo'burg in the 80's. I used to buy powder and primers from gun shop on Market Street. One of the guys who worked there (Tim? Ian? I forget but he was from Whitby in N. Yorks) was going home one Saturday lunchtime (Saturday = half day). He got off the bus in his nice middle class suburb, walked round the corner and was attacked by two people of the type who would shortly be classed as 'first-time voters'.

One came at him with a knife over-arm. Whitby guy blocks, pulls out the .45 in his belt holster and slots both between the eyes in about 1 second. The SAP came along and said "Yuss, that's only bloody good shooting, eh?"

Classic self-defence, but the poor guy was a bucket after that and I believe he went back to England.

Originally Posted by JoeCivvie

I liked the SA Police in Jo'burg in the 80's. I used to buy powder and primers from gun shop on Market Street. One of the guys who worked there (Tim? Ian? I forget but he was from Whitby in N. Yorks) was going home one Saturday lunchtime (Saturday = half day). He got off the bus in his nice middle class suburb, walked round the corner and was attacked by two people of the type who would shortly be classed as 'first-time voters'.

One came at him with a knife over-arm. Whitby guy blocks, pulls out the .45 in his belt holster and slots both between the eyes in about 1 second. The SAP came along and said "Yuss, that's only bloody good shooting, eh?"

Classic self-defence, but the poor guy was a bucket after that and I believe he went back to England.

I know a bloke who was a Jo'burg cop in the eighties and off-duty(and unarmed - god knows why) he sees this black bloke, probably mentally ill, running about the street with a blade doing everybody he can get a hold of. Our man says, "I had to lock me a wee daughter in the car and go into a garden to get a brick to knock him out". When men were men. I wouldn't have fancied it.

Popped out for lunch a few weeks ago.

Walking up Broughton Street in Edinburgh I was stopped by a "young man". He was in his 20s/30s, unshaven, unwashed, and stank of booze - in a right state.

Sob story followed.

Need money for a train ticket to Aberdeen.....just got out of the cells.....on bail, to appear in court.....had enough of this town, want to head back up North

Pointed "young man" in the direction of the homeless charity place along the road and legged it....thought it most likely any contribution to said "train fare" would disappear up arm or down throat.

Went to the nearby police station (10 minutes walk) as it occured to me that the bloke might harm himself, someone else or might actually be bailed for an offence, possibly even kicked out of the very same police station earlier.

After ringing the little buzzer and waiting for ages, someone turned up, a civvie receptionist. They weren't interested....only if the lad was posing an actual danger to himself or others. Presumably they would go to the trouble of issuing a warrant and getting someone to lift him in Aberdeen if he failed to appear in court (if that was true). Didn't even note it down.

Don't bother being a good citizen. They aren't interested.

Originally Posted by MrPVRd

After ringing the little buzzer and waiting for ages, someone turned up, a civvie receptionist. They weren't interested....only if the lad was posing an actual danger to himself or others..

The civilian staff on the front desk have got to be experienced to be believed. I had a prick sitting next to me on the subway arguing with his partner, Cider woman, as to which station he could get off at. "Ah cannae get aff at Govan. Ah've goat warrants at Govan. Remember I did "Namewithheld" wi an axe etc. We'll need tae get aff at...."

So I jumped off at the next stop, quick call I thought, let's enforce the warrant. We've ten minutes, we know his first name, his partner's first name, his offence, the name of the victim, a good description, where he will be.....

I got nowhere, and when I tried to follow it up at the station I had Epaulette Walt, Twatoftheyear, trying to gain kudos with the back office cops by calling me all sorts when he didn't realise I could hear. I set him straight when he reappeared. Civilian staff on the front desk of police stations, all-but untrained........a serious false economy. They should at least trawl the personnel files for an unemployed Special and employ them.

Originally Posted by sixty_three

The wife and me went up to see my Daughter yesterday who is at University and have been really looking forward to it.
We had a great day lunch, shopping and generaly catching up on news.
We was walking back to the campus around 16.30hrs yesterday afternoon when a scumball approached us and started demanding money obviously to fund his drug use.
I just said "No" and carried on walking with my wife and daughter under a hail of abuse from the scum bag which was not a problem to me.Next thing there was glass falling around us.The scum was that pissed off he had thrown somthing at me and it broke a small window.
This really frietend my wife and daughter so I gave chase to kick feck out of this scumer who wanted to hurt my family.He managed to give me the slip but Im sure he knew he was going to get a good kicking off me.
On reflection and having calmed down if I had caught this scum and laid in to him most likely it would have been me seen as the scum in the Courts and the drug addict getting compensation, counceling and me the "Veteran" in deep s***.

That explains it then. So when are you going to come round and fix my window?

Originally Posted by gobbyidiot

Originally Posted by MrPVRd

After ringing the little buzzer and waiting for ages, someone turned up, a civvie receptionist. They weren't interested....only if the lad was posing an actual danger to himself or others..

The civilian staff on the front desk have got to be experienced to be believed. I had a prick sitting next to me on the subway arguing with his partner, Cider woman, as to which station he could get off at. "Ah cannae get aff at Govan. Ah've goat warrants at Govan. Remember I did "Namewithheld" wi an axe etc. We'll need tae get aff at...."

So I jumped off at the next stop, quick call I thought, let's enforce the warrant. We've ten minutes, we know his first name, his partner's first name, his offence, the name of the victim, a good description, where he will be.....

I got nowhere, and when I tried to follow it up at the station I had Epaulette Walt, Twatoftheyear, trying to gain kudos with the back office cops by calling me all sorts when he didn't realise I could hear. I set him straight when he reappeared. Civilian staff on the front desk of police stations, all-but untrained........a serious false economy. They should at least trawl the personnel files for an unemployed Special and employ them.

Seconded. Wastes of rations with delusions of mediocrity.

And the civilian communication staff are even worse...

[quote="FrankCastle"][quote="gobbyidiot"]

Originally Posted by MrPVRd

And the civilian communication staff are even worse...

Oh god. The "chopped bridge" in Glasgow, 50 yards from the Salvation Army on the Clyde, next to Glasgow Green .........every Glaswegian now knows exactly what I'm talking about. Coming back from pawing the kit at the army open day 18 months ago I nearly got taken off my bike by a half brick. Many bricks then began to take out car windscreens all around. Forty neds on the bridge chucking bricks at the Salvation Army residents on the street outside.

Quick call on the mobile...........five frustrating minutes watching the chaos continue as this twat on the phone refused to do anything until I remembered the street name. Eventually I just said, "Forget it". Couple of grand of criminal damage, possibility of forty riot convictions, risk of a culpable homicide/murder.....who gives a sh*t, I can't give you a brain and I can't make you do your job.

This country is full of decent people who either can't get a job at all, or are dramatically underemployed, and I spend my days dealing with complete bell-ends. Public sector recruitment is b*llocks, IMHO. In fact, Scotland (in particular) is one huge conspiracy - the public sector middle class are (in effect) shafting the private sector working and middle class. People get humped by the tax system, providing curries, beer, movies, double glazing, things we want, and in return they get education, health, policing and social work which is often complete sh*t.

[quote="gobbyidiot"][quote="FrankCastle"]

Originally Posted by gobbyidiot

Originally Posted by MrPVRd

And the civilian communication staff are even worse...

Oh god. The "chopped bridge" in Glasgow, 50 yards from the Salvation Army on the Clyde, next to Glasgow Green .........every Glaswegian now knows exactly what I'm talking about. Coming back from pawing the kit at the army open day 18 months ago I nearly got taken off my bike by a half brick. Many bricks then began to take out car windscreens all around. Forty neds on the bridge chucking bricks at the Salvation Army residents on the street outside.

Quick call on the mobile...........five frustrating minutes watching the chaos continue as this twat on the phone refused to do anything until I remembered the street name. Eventually I just said, "Forget it". Couple of grand of criminal damage, possibility of forty riot convictions, risk of a culpable homicide/murder.....who gives a sh*t, I can't give you a brain and I can't make you do your job.

This country is full of decent people who either can't get a job at all, or are dramatically underemployed, and I spend my days dealing with complete bell-ends. Public sector recruitment is b*llocks, IMHO. In fact, Scotland (in particular) is one huge conspiracy - the public sector middle class are (in effect) shafting the private sector working and middle class. People get humped by the tax system, providing curries, beer, movies, double glazing, things we want, and in return they get education, health, policing and social work which is often complete sh*t.

Not to mention the SNP's policies on Crime, which make Jack"Man Of"Straw or Dave"Hug-A-Hoodie"Cameron look like Judge Dredd...

[quote="gobbyidiot"][quote="FrankCastle"]

Originally Posted by gobbyidiot

Originally Posted by MrPVRd

And the civilian communication staff are even worse...

Oh god. The "chopped bridge" in Glasgow, 50 yards from the Salvation Army on the Clyde, next to Glasgow Green .........every Glaswegian now knows exactly what I'm talking about. Coming back from pawing the kit at the army open day 18 months ago I nearly got taken off my bike by a half brick. Many bricks then began to take out car windscreens all around. Forty neds on the bridge chucking bricks at the Salvation Army residents on the street outside.

Quick call on the mobile...........five frustrating minutes watching the chaos continue as this twat on the phone refused to do anything until I remembered the street name. Eventually I just said, "Forget it". Couple of grand of criminal damage, possibility of forty riot convictions, risk of a culpable homicide/murder.....who gives a sh*t, I can't give you a brain and I can't make you do your job.

This country is full of decent people who either can't get a job at all, or are dramatically underemployed, and I spend my days dealing with complete bell-ends. Public sector recruitment is b*llocks, IMHO. In fact, Scotland (in particular) is one huge conspiracy - the public sector middle class are (in effect) shafting the private sector working and middle class. People get humped by the tax system, providing curries, beer, movies, double glazing, things we want, and in return they get education, health, policing and social work which is often complete sh*t.

I phoned the local Magistrates Court on Friday. To ask whether they still maintain a Commission of the Peace in the County on which the JPs are named.

I was put through to someone senior who wanted to know why I wanted to know. If I have been wiser I would have said because I don't know.

But I mentioned a Common Law Information which a Chief Clerk was dealing with as if he has full powers of a Justice. The issue being does the Chief Clerk name appear on the Commission of the Peace Yes or No.

The reply was that the answer would amount to legal advice so they could not answer.

I said I am asking a question of fact I am not seeking advice.

Well different Chief Clerks might interpret it differently was the answer. Then the unsolicited advice that I should ask a solicitor.

In a moment of rare inspiration I asled if the solicitor phoned would he get an answer. Yes.

Good I represent myself ....

Cannot answer then.

I know I represent someone else as a Mackenzie friend then.

As a what ?

Can't tell you, I said, that would be giving you legal advice.