Safe Streets ? My experiance yesterday

**ex-gunner** · 19-10-2009, 06:32

[quo

Not to mention the local Plod who not only failed to protect Mr Martin before the incident, but also failed to stop Pikies intimidating the jury during the trial.

Why should Britania tremble, with men such as this to defend her?

[/quote]

Being an old bugger, and have led a quite life in the warm nest of my family here in the wilds of northern Germany, where crime is about 1/4 of the UK.
I find that I am not familiar with the expression of " A Pinky?"

Someone please explain Pinkie....Then I shall get back under my rock.

**Griffinthe2nd** · 19-10-2009, 06:34

Originally Posted by ex-gunner

[quo

Not to mention the local Plod who not only failed to protect Mr Martin before the incident, but also failed to stop Pikies intimidating the jury during the trial.

Why should Britania tremble, with men such as this to defend her?

Being an old bugger, and have led a quite life in the warm nest of my family here in the wilds of northern Germany, where crime is about 1/4 of the UK.
I find that I am not familiar with the expression of " A Pinky?"

Someone please explain Pinkie....Then I shall get back under my rock.

[/quote]

**Markintime** · 19-10-2009, 06:40

The expression used was a Pikie which is a slang expression for Gypsies.
Pinkie is a slang expression for your little finger. You make up your own mind who might move in next to a university campus? :D

**Listy** · 19-10-2009, 06:43

"Pikie" or "Pikey" Which one is correct? My Spell checker has come over all politically Correct, and tells me both are wrong.

**Griffinthe2nd** · 19-10-2009, 06:55

Originally Posted by Listy

"Pikie" or "Pikey" Which one is correct? My Spell checker has come over all politically Correct, and tells me both are wrong.

I think nomadic tramp is the PC expression

**Markintime** · 19-10-2009, 06:55

Pikey

Pikie

**ex-gunner** · 19-10-2009, 06:56

Why Pikie ?

**Markintime** · 19-10-2009, 06:57

Try carachav

**vvaannmmaann** · 19-10-2009, 07:25

Contemporary Urban Nomadic Travellers

**hogg** · 19-10-2009, 07:26

Originally Posted by ex-gunner

Why Pikie ?

Pikie (or piker) is an abbreviation for a user of the turnpike i.e. a mobile Romany, so originally it was a term of respect.
Nowadays (like the Strictly Come Dancing fiasco) it is deemed to be a disrespectful and insulting name.

**Closet_Jibber** · 19-10-2009, 07:33

Originally Posted by DarkNinja

Ahh that is when common law kicks in - citizens arrest and "reasonable" force. If you suspect a crime has been committed, personally I wouldn't put it to the test.
The drug addled pr*ck probably made a hasty exit in the Ford Focus he has been given through claiming disability

Your average Police Officer doesn't fully understand a citizens powers in these areas as its so complicated these days so I would highly recommend avoiding a so called "Citizens Arrest" at all costs.

Someone has already correctly pointed out that after arrest alot of Police paperwork is part of the arrse covering exercise to ensure codes of practice and the law was complied with. Failure to comply can result in Disciplinary action, reduction in rank, sacking and arrest. Ask yourself how many of those four options are open to you?

If I am not mistaken "Reasonable grounds to suspect" are only in a police officers powers under Section 24 of PACE so based on what you have just stated you would have fallen foul of the law. However wrong that may be.

If you are keen to know the full ins and outs look at the powers of "Persons other than a Constable" within the Police and Criminal Evidence act 1984 and not The 1967 Criminal Law Act (I believe you were quoting part of Section 3).

**Markintime** · 19-10-2009, 07:53

Originally Posted by Closet_Jibber

Originally Posted by DarkNinja

Ahh that is when common law kicks in - citizens arrest and "reasonable" force. If you suspect a crime has been committed, personally I wouldn't put it to the test.
The drug addled pr*ck probably made a hasty exit in the Ford Focus he has been given through claiming disability

Your average Police Officer doesn't fully understand a citizens powers in these areas as its so complicated these days so I would highly recommend avoiding a so called "Citizens Arrest" at all costs.

Someone has already correctly pointed out that after arrest alot of Police paperwork is part of the arrse covering exercise to ensure codes of practice and the law was complied with. Failure to comply can result in Disciplinary action, reduction in rank, sacking and arrest. Ask yourself how many of those four options are open to you?

If I am not mistaken "Reasonable grounds to suspect" are only in a police officers powers under Section 24 of PACE so based on what you have just stated you would have fallen foul of the law. However wrong that may be.

If you are keen to know the full ins and outs look at the powers of "Persons other than a Constable" within the Police and Criminal Evidence act 1984 and not The 1967 Criminal Law Act (I believe you were quoting part of Section 3).

Surely the Police Officer's powers come about because the Police Officer is acting on witness statements rather than first hand knowledge. A victim doesn't 'suspect' that he has been assaulted, he knows (albeit he may not know the exact clause of which law under which subsection the assailant has committed an offence he knows enough to know some offence has been committed). Whereas a Police Officer coming onto the scene will hear two (possibly more), possibly conflicting, pieces of evidence and therefore can only suspect an offence has occurred as reported.

**gobbyidiot** · 19-10-2009, 08:06

They used to say (in England) cops = suspect that a crime has been committed and suspect that the person committed the crime.

Citizens - know that a crime has been committed and suspect that the person committed the crime. The old common law powers were a lot more extensive than people realised, but let's face it, what knowledge of the law do many cops have? Did you see "The Force" last week? Inspector (I think) in charge of a murder investigation has to ask whether failing to report an accident is an offence, and doesn't mind doing this on camera. The general level of understanding seemed far from startling. I shudder to think what degree of sophistication is possessed generally.

**Closet_Jibber** · 19-10-2009, 08:09

Originally Posted by Markintime

Surely the Police Officer's powers come about because the Police Officer is acting on witness statements rather than first hand knowledge. A victim doesn't 'suspect' that he has been assaulted, he knows (albeit he may not know the exact clause of which law under which subsection the assailant has committed an offence he knows enough to know some offence has been committed). Whereas a Police Officer coming onto the scene will hear two (possibly more), possibly conflicting, pieces of evidence and therefore can only suspect an offence has occurred as reported.

A victim/witness states what they believe took place. The Police officer should identify any offences committed and either arrest (if practicable) or obtain a crime report to expedite the investigation of the offence.

A lawful arrest by a police constable requires a persons involvement, attempted involvement or suspected involvement in the commission of a criminal offence (summary/indictable/either way) and reasonable grounds for believing the persons arrest is necessary. So even if he hasn't witnessed it as soon as he suspects it has taken place he can arrest.

A person other than a constable may arrest anyone who is in the act of committing an "indictable" (Not summary offences) offence anyone whom he or she has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence. I think this extends to having committed but will not cover about to commit. Also its important that the offence is Indictable (I remember that much) as people who have detained people for attempting to drink drive have fallen foul of the courts before today.

Like I said its a confusing part of the law and I wouldn't recommend Joe Public tangle themselves up in it until it is made more clear by a government that is Tougher on the offenders and not the apprehenders.

To Gobby Idiot - You are quick to have a pop at the inspector for confirming what he/she was unsure of. I'm willing to bet you would have been all over it like a tramp on chips if he had guessed and got it wrong. I think you should sit back and think about how vast the law is and how easy it might be to forget the little things that you don't deal with. Or do you honestly believe that all bobbies should be walking Police Blackstones Manuals. If in doubt - Ask!

You have actually just made a good point for this thread though. The original poster should not guess the legal position nor should he take our word for it. He should read up on it and ensure he understands what is proportionate, lawful, appropriate and necessary if he is thinking of chasing smelly chav feckers in future.

**Markintime** · 19-10-2009, 08:24

Originally Posted by Closet_Jibber

To Gobby Idiot - You are quick to have a pop at the inspector for confirming what he/she was unsure of. I'm willing to bet you would have been all over it like a tramp on chips if he had guessed and got it wrong. I think you should sit back and think about how vast the law is and how easy it might be to forget the little things that you don't deal with. Or do you honestly believe that all bobbies should be walking Police Blackstones Manuals. If in doubt - Ask!

There was a thread on here not so long ago about a lad being arrested in the underground and the police threatening his GF with arrest for filming them. The outrage level was through the roof because the Police had acted above their powers. Perhaps it's always better to reassure oneself before one takes a course of action.
The Inspector's expertise was in homicide, he might be forgiven for not knowing aspects of traffic law, knowledge he was probably last called upon to use many years ago.