Thread: Paras without planes: RAF running out of Hercules

We manufacture a perfectly suitable parachute training balloon system down here in Essex. We just delivered a new balloon to the guys at Belgian Defence in Schaffen and we're building another for a customer in the Far East at the moment. We've had the discussion on here before about how scary balloon jumps are but hey, at least it's a jump. If I could find who to talk to at the MoD I'd be bleating at them too.

Want one?

Originally Posted by Whet

Originally Posted by chocolate_frog

Medal counts don't really count (see what I did there) when it comes to maintaining or binning regiments or their capabilities.

Can anyone name ANY airdrop (of over Bn size) that was not a complete diaster?

Wasn't there a huge drop on the Ruhr that didn't go badly?

The Turks launched an effective airborne assault on Northern Cyprus. Though I never studied the operation in detail.

Here is an interesting document written by some interesting people:

This study was written for the Historical Division, EUCOM, by a committee of former German officers. It follows an outline prepared by the Office of the Chief of Military History, Special Staff, United States Army, which is given below:
1. a. A review of German airborne experience in World War II.
b. An appraisal of German successes and failures.
c. Reasons for the apparent abandonment of large-scale German airborne operations after the Crete operation.
2. a. German experience in opposing Allied and Russian airborne operations.
b. An appraisal of the effectiveness of these operations.
3. The probable future of airborne operations.

Airborne Operations: A German Appraisal

Originally Posted by ericthellama

We manufacture a perfectly suitable parachute training balloon system down here in Essex. We just delivered a new balloon to the guys at Belgian Defence in Schaffen and we're building another for a customer in the Far East at the moment. We've had the discussion on here before about how scary balloon jumps are but hey, at least it's a jump. If I could find who to talk to at the MoD I'd be bleating at them too.

Want one?

Is the gondola covered up to simulate the enclosed environment of a transport plane or is it to stop the would be 'sky gods' from soiling themselves on the way up?

As a matter of interest why are static line tows not used for practicing manoeuvring in flight and PLFs? There used to be Koch winch at Middle Wallop that had a decent cable on it.

Originally Posted by bigeye

Originally Posted by ericthellama

We manufacture a perfectly suitable parachute training balloon system down here in Essex. We just delivered a new balloon to the guys at Belgian Defence in Schaffen and we're building another for a customer in the Far East at the moment. We've had the discussion on here before about how scary balloon jumps are but hey, at least it's a jump. If I could find who to talk to at the MoD I'd be bleating at them too.

Want one?

Is the gondola covered up to simulate the enclosed environment of a transport plane or is it to stop the would be 'sky gods' from soiling themselves on the way up?

As a matter of interest why are static line tows not used for practicing manoeuvring in flight and PLFs? There used to be Koch winch at Middle Wallop that had a decent cable on it.

My bold - nope. Uk Summer training saw this canopy removed. Usually we regarded it as a means of protecting the occupants from rain/snow.

As for your tow winch theory - that should prove interesting with a 50 lb. CSPEP strapped to your leg :D :D

Originally Posted by Alec_Lomas

Originally Posted by bigeye

Originally Posted by ericthellama

We manufacture a perfectly suitable parachute training balloon system down here in Essex. We just delivered a new balloon to the guys at Belgian Defence in Schaffen and we're building another for a customer in the Far East at the moment. We've had the discussion on here before about how scary balloon jumps are but hey, at least it's a jump. If I could find who to talk to at the MoD I'd be bleating at them too.

Want one?

Is the gondola covered up to simulate the enclosed environment of a transport plane or is it to stop the would be 'sky gods' from soiling themselves on the way up?

As a matter of interest why are static line tows not used for practicing manoeuvring in flight and PLFs? There used to be Koch winch at Middle Wallop that had a decent cable on it.

My bold - nope. Uk Summer training saw this canopy removed. Usually we regarded it as a means of protecting the occupants from rain/snow.

As for your tow winch theory - that should prove interesting with a 50 lb. CSPEP strapped to your leg :D :D

I hear what you say regarding extra kit weight, however I've been towed up with a passengers on the front. The brutes weigh in more than 50lb...and you can't cut them away mid flight or before landing. Mores the pity.

As far as I am aware the Marines don't have to put up with this. I was talking to an officer in Plymouth last Sunday and he tells me that his men are getting their jumps in.

Originally Posted by bigeye

Originally Posted by ericthellama

We manufacture a perfectly suitable parachute training balloon system down here in Essex. We just delivered a new balloon to the guys at Belgian Defence in Schaffen and we're building another for a customer in the Far East at the moment. We've had the discussion on here before about how scary balloon jumps are but hey, at least it's a jump. If I could find who to talk to at the MoD I'd be bleating at them too.

Want one?

Is the gondola covered up to simulate the enclosed environment of a transport plane or is it to stop the would be 'sky gods' from soiling themselves on the way up?

Some have 'em, some don't. It rains all the time in Belgium so I guess they keep theirs on to stop their Para's going all soggy. Other customers fling 'em out in hot sweaty places and don't worry. There's a few vids on YouTube methinks. Try these . . . . . .

ROK Jumpers

More ROK Jumpers

Belgian Kids Jumping

Originally Posted by Tytus_Barnowl

As far as I am aware the Marines don't have to put up with this. I was talking to an officer in Plymouth last Sunday and he tells me that his men are getting their jumps in.

And so are the army, as Fallschirmjaeger and I have pointed out on this very thread. Not as many opportunities as there used to be, and an increased number of cancellations due to operational priorities, but jumps going in all the same.

Originally Posted by The_Duke

Originally Posted by Tytus_Barnowl

As far as I am aware the Marines don't have to put up with this. I was talking to an officer in Plymouth last Sunday and he tells me that his men are getting their jumps in.

And so are the army, as Fallschirmjaeger and I have pointed out on this very thread. Not as many opportunities as there used to be, and an increased number of cancellations due to operational priorities, but jumps going in all the same.

Now that's a term that should not be used to promote parachuting.

Originally Posted by Tytus_Barnowl

As far as I am aware the Marines don't have to put up with this. I was talking to an officer in Plymouth last Sunday and he tells me that his men are getting their jumps in.

Even if its only on a GAY single stick course :D

Originally Posted by ECMO1

Originally Posted by Whet

Originally Posted by chocolate_frog

Can anyone name ANY airdrop (of over Bn size) that was not a complete diaster?

Wasn't there a huge drop on the Ruhr that didn't go badly?

Operation Plunder, general plan for crossing the Rhine had a sub plan Operation Varsity two division drop involving the 17th US Airborne Div and 6 UK Airborne Div. At least one write up said it went very well. Link
For more extensive coverage of WWII airborne ops (at least from the US point of view) see here

There were several jumps during Korea after Inchon assisting the northward movement.

For a more modern example of airborne drops, two Bn from the US 173 Airborne Bde jumped into Northern Iraq to link up with Kurdish forces during the invasion of Iraq. Link to VFW writeup

You could add Kolwezi by 2nd REP

If the current situation in Afghanistan is not the most obvious setup for a long-range airborne insertion of one or two company groups I dont know what is, It would add significant depth to the battlefield and would eleviate some of the pressure on the blokes who are having a tough time on the ground, the long range insertion is not an expensive or difficult option, we did one a few years ago into goose bay in Canada.

Whatever you believe about binning airborne insertion as a capability you surely must see the potential benefits of lobbing in to AFG right now, we have the manpower, we have (somewhere) the airframes and we have the ability to send a fvcking shock right into the taliban on top of the pasting they are already recieving.
Something as relatively simple as this could turn the tide significantly in our favour within the current OP (panthers whatsit)

There are plenty of viable dz's, supplies and support assets are already there and Im sure unit rivalry aside the boots on the ground would welcome a company group of blokes rocking up from nowhere to support them.

Any thoughts?

This may have been said earlier, and if so I apologise.

One of the problems about not dropping units from a/c is that not only are the soldiers not getting the training and experience, the pilots are not either.

I have read quite a bit about the landings at Scicily and D-Day and one of the main reasons for troops and equipment not being dropped in the correct place was the inexperience of the pilots, many of whom had just been moved from other duties to dropping sticks over a live DZ.

This is not a dig at the pilots, it was not their fault they had not had the training, but it is important that not only do the troops exiting the a/c know what they are doing, but the driver also needs to know what he is supposed to be doing.

If we are not allocating a/c for training drops then we are not training pilots to do it either. IMHO.

blokes are jumping all the time, trust me their are enough traind pilots to do it.