Thread: Linguist training

Originally Posted by Bagster

Originally Posted by Needle_Point

Originally Posted by tearsbeforebedtime

I would like to book the dry dock for week to service my ship. I must talk to the harbour master.

I need to book a double room with an en-suite and a nice view of the cathedral.

I would like to rent a medium sized car with air con.*

Hmmm, and they are not up to scratch?

*Examples from an aquaintence on the Pashto course (allegedly Dari is the same). My personal favorite has to be the first.

Bit harsh, perhaps they are good examples of grammar in the language?

One of the first Japanese phrases I leant was "Where is the teacher's umbrella" as it just happened to be a good structured example; I never really cared whether the lecturer got damp or not, and it's not been much use since but it still stuck rather annoyingly in my head ("Kore Wa Sensai No Kasa Desu Ka?")

I couldn't resist this, and yes, I'm a fcuking pedant

But your translation is incorrect, "Kore wa sensei no kasa desu ka?" means "is this the teacher's umbrella", surely if you wanted to express "where is the teacher's umbrella?", you'd say "Sensei no kasa wa dare desu ka?"

sorry but it's been bugging me for weeks.

Shitsurei Shimasu!

I was told the construction was "a WA x NO b DESU" meaning "a" was the subject qualified by the "no" with "desu" being the end with the question marker "ka" and a rise in the tone of voice .

Unfortunately, all my text books are in a loft at the moment, so I am unable to assist further than this from memory (but I stand to be corrected).

Let's have a kirin and call the whole thing off?

Originally Posted by Needle_Point

Originally Posted by Bagster

Originally Posted by Needle_Point

Originally Posted by tearsbeforebedtime

I would like to book the dry dock for week to service my ship. I must talk to the harbour master.

I need to book a double room with an en-suite and a nice view of the cathedral.

I would like to rent a medium sized car with air con.*

Hmmm, and they are not up to scratch?

*Examples from an aquaintence on the Pashto course (allegedly Dari is the same). My personal favorite has to be the first.

Bit harsh, perhaps they are good examples of grammar in the language?

One of the first Japanese phrases I leant was "Where is the teacher's umbrella" as it just happened to be a good structured example; I never really cared whether the lecturer got damp or not, and it's not been much use since but it still stuck rather annoyingly in my head ("Kore Wa Sensai No Kasa Desu Ka?")

I couldn't resist this, and yes, I'm a fcuking pedant

But your translation is incorrect, "Kore wa sensei no kasa desu ka?" means "is this the teacher's umbrella", surely if you wanted to express "where is the teacher's umbrella?", you'd say "Sensei no kasa wa dare desu ka?"

sorry but it's been bugging me for weeks.

Shitsurei Shimasu!

I was told the construction was "a WA x NO b DESU" meaning "a" was the subject qualified by the "no" with "desu" being the end with the question marker "ka" and a rise in the tone of voice .

Unfortunately, all my text books are in a loft at the moment, so I am unable to assist further than this from memory (but I stand to be corrected).

Let's have a kirin and call the whole thing off?

Just add more desu, can't go wrong. Apparently.

Originally Posted by One_of_the_strange

Just add more desu, can't go wrong. Apparently.

hai, Anjin-san!

It will be interesting to say the least to learn the findings of either / both of the reviews that were initiated last year into linguists' training / careers, if for no other reason to see if anything new is suggested. For instance, I was in a group of Royal Signals' / Int Corps' linguists that was addressed in 1983 by an extremely well respected Int Corps' LE major, who was also a linguist. He told us that we were 99.9% certain to get language pay by the end of 1984. In his view, it was already long overdue! It was going to be the princely sum of 50p per day for all linguists, but at least it was a start. Of course, in order to receive this king's ransom on top of your basic wage, you would be required to undergo an annual test of your linguistic ability, but that wasn't viewed as any great logistical hurdle. How long did it finally take to get additional language pay of any kind into the system?

Shortly after this, we were addressed by a Royal Signals' WO1 who gave us every assurance that a supervisory course designed specifically for Royal Signals' linguists would be in place within a year. Well, by 2001 and the mass culling of Royal Signals' linguists, that issue still hadn't been solved. Yes, other schemes were tried (including putting Royal Signals' linguists on Supvr (R) courses - until spec ops got pissed off with them coming top), but nothing was done explicitly for the linguists.

"So what?", I hear you say, "that was all 20+ years ago". Well, the issue is that 20+ years later, it is still the same/similar concerns that linguists are trotting out in threads like this, and that still cause great gnashing of teeth . So, when the findings / recommendations of these reviews are finally published, you'll have to forgive me if I treat them with a degree of scepticism, a view that I'm sure will be shared by many of those who are also long in the tooth.

Originally Posted by Dr_Nick_Riviera

It will be interesting to say the least to learn the findings of either / both of the reviews that were initiated last year into linguists' training / careers, if for no other reason to see if anything new is suggested. For instance, I was in a group of Royal Signals' / Int Corps' linguists that was addressed in 1983 by an extremely well respected Int Corps' LE major, who was also a linguist. He told us that we were 99.9% certain to get language pay by the end of 1984. In his view, it was already long overdue!

Like you Dr Nick, I won't be holding my breath for any new ideas. Especially when 'Who be the Daddy now then?' informs us that there is no money so we'll just have to make do. Not only that, but his suggestion that we recruit 'Officers' specifically to be linguists shows that he is either unwilling or unable to grasp the difference between the OP MI (L) and the other sort of linguist. HELLO! You might want to recruit some SOLDIERS to be linguists, or is that way too radical?

my personal opinion is this. you aren't going to get language pay.

the only way money goes to trades nowadays is when they become dangerously undermanned or have a retention crisis. see Financial Retention Incentives for pilots, SAS and infanteers - temporary measure designed to stop them leaving. this measure is removed as soon as the emergency is over and the manning problem is resolved.

unless linguists started to vote with their feet - which i hope they don't, and don't think they will do, as they are too professional to walk over this - then nothing will change. just lots of hot air, reviews, moaning - but never any money.

personally, i think you deserve something. doing an 18 month(?) training course, but getting neither pay nor promotion as a reward, places you at odds with other courses like pilots, tiffys, clerk of works, YoS etc.

but what do i know, i'm probably missing the point somewhere.

@CR - Not missing the point at all there I think. We seem to have been offered the promise of extra pay for many years and it has managed to keep people in, in the hope that things might get better.

Well they haven't, so I'm off.

Originally Posted by CRmeansCeilingReached

my personal opinion is this. you aren't going to get language pay.

the only way money goes to trades nowadays is when they become dangerously undermanned or have a retention crisis. see Financial Retention Incentives for pilots, SAS and infanteers - temporary measure designed to stop them leaving. this measure is removed as soon as the emergency is over and the manning problem is resolved.

unless linguists started to vote with their feet - which i hope they don't, and don't think they will do, as they are too professional to walk over this - then nothing will change. just lots of hot air, reviews, moaning - but never any money.

personally, i think you deserve something. doing an 18 month(?) training course, but getting neither pay nor promotion as a reward, places you at odds with other courses like pilots, tiffys, clerk of works, YoS etc.

but what do i know, i'm probably missing the point somewhere.

What's that you say? The pilots course and promotion? Surely not......................

Originally Posted by Op_Int_and_Spy

Originally Posted by CRmeansCeilingReached

personally, i think you deserve something. doing an 18 month(?) training course, but getting neither pay nor promotion as a reward, places you at odds with other courses like pilots, tiffys, clerk of works, YoS etc.

but what do i know, i'm probably missing the point somewhere.

What's that you say? The pilots course and promotion? Surely not......................

as i said, pay or promotion... seems it's an either/or thing ;)

Originally Posted by CRmeansCeilingReached

Originally Posted by Op_Int_and_Spy

Originally Posted by CRmeansCeilingReached

personally, i think you deserve something. doing an 18 month(?) training course, but getting neither pay nor promotion as a reward, places you at odds with other courses like pilots, tiffys, clerk of works, YoS etc.

but what do i know, i'm probably missing the point somewhere.

What's that you say? The pilots course and promotion? Surely not......................

as i said, pay or promotion... seems it's an either/or thing ;)

CR - If you're into the big four, you should be getting language pay already. Even though it isn't worth much unless you're a Diploma linguist deployed on Ops in the relevant theatre using your language.

Insh'allah, that will change, and more quickly than you realise.

Oh, and btw - when did you last look at languages in your Corps, because it is a pinch point, and has been ever since the single trade was introduced. Shall I bore you with the reasons why? Or you could always ask the light blue, as they are still doing it the same way as before and, (grimaces inwardly) it works.

Mandarin - pah! What are a bunch of citrus fruit going to do to us?

Dontdreamit - where's your gif from?

If you want to see Language training done as badly as possible, go do OPTAG. It was an hour stolen from my life. No doubt the very appologetic lady had been told "Give 'em the language card and go through it" but there were no cards, so one hour spent repeating phrases (no phrase repeated more than twice). all I learned was that the Arabic for zero is the same as Turkish (didn't the arab mathematicians invent the concept of zero?).

It was quite simply BOLOX. Perhaps we got it on a bad day but I wasn't impressed.

(PS Note to Bagster-it was far far worse than anything we discussed last time i saw you-that bad)

devex - that sounds identical to how it was "taught" in jan 07.

Originally Posted by devexwarrior

If you want to see Language training done as badly as possible, go do OPTAG. It was an hour stolen from my life. No doubt the very appologetic lady had been told "Give 'em the language card and go through it" but there were no cards, so one hour spent repeating phrases (no phrase repeated more than twice). all I learned was that the Arabic for zero is the same as Turkish (didn't the arab mathematicians invent the concept of zero?).

It was quite simply BOLOX. Perhaps we got it on a bad day but I wasn't impressed.

Seconded.

Originally Posted by devexwarrior

all I learned was that the Arabic for zero is the same as Turkish (didn't the arab mathematicians invent the concept of zero?).

That was a good attempt at a bite mate, honestly, and it nearly, oh so nearly worked until I reminded myself of the twaat who posted it