Royal Regiment of Scotland (and England, and Germany...)

**Werewolf** · 18-01-2006, 22:04

It's the Scottish regiments that are getting shafted now. It could well be English regiments next. I'd say the only safe regiments are the Guards, because of the cermonial bovine excrement, The Paras and the SAS. Anyone else is fair game, no matter how old or how many battle honours they have.
If the government/MoD thought they could get away with having a single "super-regiment" for England, they'd do it. Blair and Brown are a bigger threat to soldiers than Osama.

**Cabarfeidh** · 18-01-2006, 22:25

Oi Chancellor - we were NOT 3 out of 6, the latest figures in the manning forecast from ATRA were transposed and our manning was -13 whilst the Argylls was -117 but Upavon switched them to we ended up looking like we were half Bn down. And wasn't it interesting that when a HLDRS officer became CO mysteriously the manning figures for 1 A&SH became rather more truthful than they had been....I also hear the D and D were caught out 'massaging' their figures to save themselves as a regiment within the LI hence the original plan for RGBW to be split etc which has now been abandoned. Naughty.

The whole situation is bad for EVERYONE not just Jocks, but Taffs and English as well. Looking at 1 PWRR and their need for lots of Fijians makes me wonder if PWRR will be cut next from 1 to 2 Regular Bns. The Guards have been let off lightly as their manning target last year was I think around 450 new recruits and they only achieved HALF that. But I also heard that their establishments had been 'modified' to cut the numbers required in a London Bn to 440! So they can 'truthfully' claim to be almost fully manned for role when they are in fact worse off than any other regiments! They also have far more cross unit posting than any one else to help each other come up to strength for roles. Is this right or is my old RSM talking tosh?

Quote of the year last year: "1 HLDRS are now amongst the most effective recruiters in the Army and are at the top of the league in Scotland. At the Infantry Training Centre where infantrymen are now trained, The Highlanders have entered more recruits than ever before and will train nearly 100 new Highlanders this financial year. According to the Director of Infantry's figures 1 HLDRS have the best retention of trained manpower in the Infantry; not only does this give 1 HLDRS an optimistic manning forecast but, in quality terms, the Battalion retain more of the best soldiers"

This is going to be painful, hard work for the regiments but hopefully some good will come of it IF the career management works for the lads.

**bobos** · 18-01-2006, 22:42

Werewolf said the woodentops, Paras and hereford hooligans were the only safe units. Why in this modern army do we need paras. EDITED. READ THE STUFF AT THE TOP OF THE INF BOARD AS TO RULES AND THIS WONT KEEP HAPPENING TO YOUR POSTS.

Woodentops are very dated but good crowd and tourist pullers. Talked to one last night who went AWOL because they would not let him transfer to a proper infantry unit.

The scots, welsh and proper english regiments should stay

**The_Chancellor** · 19-01-2006, 18:42

Cabar Feidh,

You are absolutely right about HLDRS retention, 13 years I believe at the last count, way in excess of others.

But the comment was based on the manning trend over the past 10 years, and the first five of those were spent in the aftermath of a painful and bitter amalgamation, and divisions which still exist within the Regt today. At the time of the D Inf, CGS conflab 1 HLDRS were indeed third, but fortunately due to a five year stint noth of Watford (Catterick and then Edinburgh) and through some real work on recruiting things have picked up.

Long may it remain.

**quiet_teuchter** · 19-01-2006, 19:21

Originally Posted by The_Chancellor

But the comment was based on the manning trend over the past 10 years, and the first five of those were spent in the aftermath of a painful and bitter amalgamation, and divisions which still exist within the Regt today. .

Let us not over egg things here. I do not remember the amalgamation of QOHLDRS and GORDONS as bitter. Painful perhaps, unwelcome definitely, but not bitter. As to divisions today, well they must be hidden very well. There was one hell of a fury from the Regimental Associations and the wider regimental family and the splits still stand to be seen today but within the 1st battalion as professional soldiers we all turned smartly to the right, saluted and cracked on; very much as I expect we will do again. Having been raised on the stories of the the Seaforth and Queen's Own Cameron Highlander amalgamations with near riots and mass kilt burnings the 1994 amalgamation was a haven of peace and tranquility.

I have yet to hear of a story from the amalgamation that can be born out by hard facts, merely second hand and unattributed stories.

That aside, what should not be underestimated is the impact that amalgamations and public hand-wringing have on 'joe public'. Civilian interfaces with the army are increasingly few and far between. It had taken the QOHldrs up until 1993 to re-establish themselves as the local regiment in the Highlands, only to have to start all over again in 1994. Now in 2006 we will be 're-branded' again in civvie speak, and once again it may take a generation to re-establish ourselves in the mind of our public as their regiment; one worth joining and supporting.

**Biscuits_AB** · 19-01-2006, 19:57

Originally Posted by Louis_Cyph

Biscuits_AB and Vandyke

What a pair of tw*ts . You're no better than anyone else so stop playing the Scottish Card for sympathy. I don't give a monkeys about what part of BRITAIN you come from, every new Regt is going to have to take some pain so just get used to it or walk away. Hope you both get to go to Fally for many happy years.

A) Were you on drugs when you wrote this?

B) Scottish Card?................Streatham mate, Streatham (clue.....it's no where near Scotland).

C) I'd go to Fally tomorrow. I actually love the place.

D) Now go and lie down in a dark room Mr Angry, you're upsetting my Karma.

**Louis_Cyph** · 20-01-2006, 10:52

Originally Posted by Biscuits_AB

B) Scottish Card?................Streatham mate, Streatham (clue.....it's no where near Scotland).

C) I'd go to Fally tomorrow. I actually love the place.

D) Now go and lie down in a dark room Mr Angry, you're upsetting my Karma.

Point B - fair one, you're from Streatham so why are you so pro Scotland and getting so leary? It sounds like the argument is nothing to do with you which makes you an even bigger cnut. Go back to Streatham city boy.

Point C - Christ. Fally really?

Point D - Have a look at your posts and you'll realise that you were the one who was getting rather upset. If thats your idea of Karma you're one fcuked up individual.

**dogmonkey** · 20-01-2006, 11:54

Ladies, stop this pathetic bickering or your posts go, or if you want to continue, do it by pm.

**Paoli** · 20-01-2006, 13:50

Some very good points have been made here. In losing a whole battalion, it is clear that the Scottish Regiments are being singled out for unfair treatment when English Regiments are only losing 2. This is particularly harsh when you consider how many Scottish battalions were slashed during Options for Change and the Strategic Defence Review.

Even this comparison does not demonstrate the full damage that is being done. Unlike English Regiments, there is compelling evidence that, because of their â€œtribalâ€ nature, Scottish Regiments are destroyed utterly by mergers. A case in point is the Black Watch, who have never recovered from the disastrous merging of the 42nd and 73rd Regiments.

A much fairer and more practical approach would be to increase the number of Scottish battalions while reducing the English Regiments (which, of course, include the Welsh and Cornish, who sided with the English during the Highland clearances). A sensible number would be about 21 battalions, allowing each of the existing Scottish Regiments to have 3 battalions (the Highlanders, of course, having first reverted to being 2 Regiments: the Gordons and the Queens Own). This would leave 2 Ghurkha battalions, an Irish battalion, 2 Para battalions, a Ranger battalion, the Household Division and 5 English battalions. While this seems a little unfair at first glance, it is important to remember that the Parachute Regiment (including the Ranger battalion) is mostly composed of Scots anyway, and the Household Division would be restructured into the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th battalions of the Scots Guards.

The 5 English battalions could either be distributed regionally as 5 different Regiments (East Anglia, Mercia, Wales etc.) or, more conveniently, could be located centrally as a single 5 battalion regiment. The Midlands would be ideal for this, making Gloucester the logical choice. Naming this new Regiment â€œThe Gloucestershire Regimentâ€ would allow them to retain the world famous Back BadgeTM and would, Iâ€™m sure, be met with universal approval.

**benjaminw1** · 20-01-2006, 13:56

Paoli for Def Sec

**Biscuits_AB** · 20-01-2006, 16:40

Originally Posted by Louis_Cyph

Originally Posted by Biscuits_AB

B) Scottish Card?................Streatham mate, Streatham (clue.....it's no where near Scotland).

C) I'd go to Fally tomorrow. I actually love the place.

D) Now go and lie down in a dark room Mr Angry, you're upsetting my Karma.

Point B - fair one, you're from Streatham so why are you so pro Scotland and getting so leary? It sounds like the argument is nothing to do with you which makes you an even bigger cnut. Go back to Streatham city boy.

Point C - Christ. Fally really?

Point D - Have a look at your posts and you'll realise that you were the one who was getting rather upset. If thats your idea of Karma you're one fcuked up individual.

Leary?.........don't you mean lairy?

Lie down now before you hurt yourself.

**RCSignals** · 20-01-2006, 23:39

Originally Posted by Biscuits_AB

Originally Posted by Louis_Cyph

Originally Posted by Biscuits_AB

B) Scottish Card?................Streatham mate, Streatham (clue.....it's no where near Scotland).

C) I'd go to Fally tomorrow. I actually love the place.

D) Now go and lie down in a dark room Mr Angry, you're upsetting my Karma.

Point B - fair one, you're from Streatham so why are you so pro Scotland and getting so leary? It sounds like the argument is nothing to do with you which makes you an even bigger cnut. Go back to Streatham city boy.

Point C - Christ. Fally really?

Point D - Have a look at your posts and you'll realise that you were the one who was getting rather upset. If thats your idea of Karma you're one fcuked up individual.

Leary?.........don't you mean lairy?

Lie down now before you hurt yourself.

It's OK Biscuits, looks like you are MacB_ABs from Streatham now, you won't change their minds. May as well get yourself over to the Kilt Tailor thread and get fitted.

**Auld-Yin** · 21-01-2006, 00:09

Originally Posted by Biscuits_AB

Originally Posted by Louis_Cyph

Biscuits_AB and Vandyke

What a pair of tw*ts . You're no better than anyone else so stop playing the Scottish Card for sympathy. I don't give a monkeys about what part of BRITAIN you come from, every new Regt is going to have to take some pain so just get used to it or walk away. Hope you both get to go to Fally for many happy years.

A) Were you on drugs when you wrote this?

B) Scottish Card?................Streatham mate, Streatham (clue.....it's no where near Scotland).
C) I'd go to Fally tomorrow. I actually love the place.

D) Now go and lie down in a dark room Mr Angry, you're upsetting my Karma.

No - but it is closer to Scotland Yard

Seriously though, the argument should be - WTF are we losing 4 inf bns at a time they are needed more than ever?

As to filling up units for op tours - when was the last time that any bn deployed purely on their posted strength? This is not a dig but a genuine query.