Originally Posted by girliebiker

Originally Posted by IT_Guy

Which reminds be, why is everyone wandering the Dales with ski poles? Whats that about?

Not sure but it's part of the reason I gave up walking in the Peak District, full of noddys in the latest fashion with no idea.

Perfer Scotland or Snowdonia, you can walk for miles without running into the local ramblers out of their depth and lost!

fair few nobbers like that on tryfan some days.

the worst is when they tag along behind you so they can follow where you go.
they seem to get quite pissy when i turn around and say that my route will involve some pretty hairy moves, and if they wanted to climb a mountain they should have bought a map, and not come in trainers.

and the ski poles are for the old and bald, to help distribute your weight through your arms as well as legs. basicly if you are getting weighed down by your own hair, you use the poles to help you.

Originally Posted by christheclimber

fair few nobbers like that on tryfan some days.

the worst is when they tag along behind you so they can follow where you go.
they seem to get quite pissy when i turn around and say that my route will involve some pretty hairy moves, and if they wanted to climb a mountain they should have bought a map, and not come in trainers.

and the ski poles are for the old and bald, to help distribute your weight through your arms as well as legs. basicly if you are getting weighed down by your own hair, you use the poles to help you.

I'd love to have another go at climbing, it's been around 12 years since I tried it. That was with a group of squadies.

I was stood watching the guys on Tryfan a couple of weeks ago, made me so very jealous that I've booked a course at PYB in Caple Curig for early next year. :D

which course. i learned to rock climb there many moons ago (well a few years). some of the best in the world work there.

they have an indoor wall which is bloody excellent. took most of the skin off my fingers before managing to climb this:



i mean the arch in the background. theres a good stretch of 'horizontal' climbing followed by round and up to the bar at the top. you'll see it when you go, if you go in the indoor wall (its free so you might as well).

big old sense of achievement doing that.

Originally Posted by girliebiker

I'd love to have another go at climbing, it's been around 12 years since I tried it. That was with a group of squadies.

I was stood watching the guys on Tryfan a couple of weeks ago, made me so very jealous that I've booked a course at PYB in Caple Curig for early next year. :D

If you like walking/climbing in Scotland and want to do a course then I would recommend the guys at Abacus Mountaineering, based at Fort William. Top blokes and will cater whatever you do to your level of (in)comptency.

Best of luck at PYB. Top tip would be to get rock shoes with velcro straps and if/when you buy a climbing harness buy it at a climbing wall shop where you can actually hang in it first - try loads.

Mods please delete this if it is inappropriate.

My girlfriend, while pissing herself laughing at the walking poles piccies (how to look like a German tourist in one easy move), asked me to post the following:

http://www.worldexpeditions.co.uk/in...news&id=158184

If you're in London or nearby then please buy tickets for this lecture at the Royal Geographical Society on Nov 29th. Two reasons: one is that Kenton Cool is very entertaining and an outstanding climber/mountaineer and the second is that it is for a very good cause, Porters Progress UK. This is a charity which has been established to help porters in Nepal, principally by providing them with decent kit. Their current project is to get proper UVA/UVB resistant sunglasses for them to reduce the very high incidence of permanent damage and blindness amongst the sherpa/porter community in Nepal.

It should be a great evening and is for a very good cause.

Hmmmmm, all the gear and no idea!

Laugh all you want about the poles but as someone chasing 50 and not bald!, buying a pole (yes you only need one) was one of the best purchases I made some 10 years ago. It relieves the knees downhill and is a good climbing aid over slippy rocks as anyone having done Scafell Pike will know.

Agree with the paramo jacket, they also do the trews too which are good. I find the Gaiters very good but get a breathable pair as the normal ones tend to sweat a lot.

I walk every weekend and its easy to see the knobbers that have spent a packet on all the gear and those that walk regularly, but its no fashion parade, everyone is welcome and I will always help anyone without a map.
Fill your boots, so they say.

Originally Posted by christheclimber

a bivi bag will set you back a fair bit, i suggest one of these:

they are sort of like a big plastic bag. iv forgotten the name, but they conserve like 98% of your body heat. cost about a fiver, most mountaineering shops sell them.

you can get variations to hold up to about 8 people. if your not planning to spend time overnight, taking that will be fine. most are orange on the outside,

I don't mean to sound rude mate, but a lot of what you are saying on this thread is misleading and some of it is possibly dangerous.

Firstly, I know of no bivvy-bag fabric that will retain 98% body heat. Outside of NASA's development laboratory, such fabric just does not exist.

I suspect that you may be thinking of a 'space-blanket' which claims to reflect 90% radiant heat. Since most heat is lost by conduction (into the ground) and convection (into the air), this claim of retaining radiant heat means nothing whatsoever to a mountaineer. It possibly may even reduce your thermal/IR signature, which is never a good thing if SAR are looking for you; and they are so flimsy they would be shredded in less than a minute in use up a hill.

You describe a bothy-bag or group shelter/KISU (which can hold up to eight people), but the link you have posted leads to a polythene survival bag (for individual use). I would like to point out that neither of these items are bivvy-bags

As a course-trained MLT/UEL, I would always recommend some form of shelter is carried by all individuals within the group (and as a group leader I would consider taking spare warm clothing and a group shelter unit)

For the originator of this thread, I would recommend taking a poly-bag survival bag or AMK Heatsheets Bivvy (between £3-15). Upgrade to a bivvy-bag and spare warm clothing in winter; and consider taking a group shelter if in a group.

As for discussing the cost of items, forget the cost. As pointed out by others, buy cheap buy twice. But the way I look at it: what is my life worth. If you won't shell out a couple of hundred pounds to make sure you are correctly clothed I would suggest mountaineering/hill walking is not your ideal sport.

Secondly christheclimber, your info about carrying knives, ropes and learning to climb is quite simply balls :D if we're talking about bimbling about the Peak District. It is statements like that which make people think they need ropes and climbing skills that keeps them away from nature.
Chris, please don't take this as me being a dick with you, I just wanted to dispel some common myths

IT GUY, get yourself to any of the high-street retailers and the staff there will rig you out to your needs. If you go to any popular UK hill areas (Lakes, N Wales, West Highlands) you will get quality kit and advice from staff who are very familiar with your needs and wants.

IT Guy, your green issue bivi bag is ideal. I'm still using the one I was issued with in the late 80s. It goes with me whenever I head out of town. You never know when a twisted ankle, or an absolute downpour may hold you up. You can use it as a seat if the ground is sodden, as a pillow if you fancy a lay down. If you really use your imagination you could even get in it and keep the worst of the wind and rain off you and your kit.

Mate, just like any subject, a lot of balls gets spouted about it. I grew up in the Cumbrian Fells and worked as a shepherd there before joining the Guards.

Good boots, good socks and a good outer layer jacket are well within a moderate budget.

I live in London and use Sports World for most of my gear. It's all branded stuff but end of lines. Absolutely nothing wrong with it and you pay next to nothing for it. They sell online if you don't have a branch near you.

I'm a big fan of karrimor kit. I use karrimore KSB Goretex boots with Vibram sole. You can pick them up online or in sales for about 50-60 quid if you look around. Karrrimor base layer tops can be got for under a fiver and just a few months ago I picked up a karrimor mountain jacket with interactive fleece for £40.

Army issue socks are perfect, I'm wearing a pair right now. Helly Hanson make some fantastic proven kit. My current outer jacket is a green helly tech mountain jacket, bought for about 60 quid in a sale in Keswick ten years ago. It has never leaked or left me cold. It dries in no time and has very well placed pockets inside and out.

Mate, my best advice is to shop around. Don't be tempted by the first thing that comes along. I mix and match civvy/army kit to good effect.

For leg wear, Ron Hill tracksters ( or anything similar ) will suit you well. Easy to wear, flexible, non chafing, dry out very quickly and cut out most of the wind chill.

If you want any more info, send me a pm and I'll try and help.

Have great fun with your new hobby.

Originally Posted by Cryptotermes

Originally Posted by christheclimber

a bivi bag will set you back a fair bit, i suggest one of these:

they are sort of like a big plastic bag. iv forgotten the name, but they conserve like 98% of your body heat. cost about a fiver, most mountaineering shops sell them.

you can get variations to hold up to about 8 people. if your not planning to spend time overnight, taking that will be fine. most are orange on the outside,

I don't mean to sound rude mate, but a lot of what you are saying on this thread is misleading and some of it is possibly dangerous.

Firstly, I know of no bivvy-bag fabric that will retain 98% body heat. Outside of NASA's development laboratory, such fabric just does not exist.

I suspect that you may be thinking of a 'space-blanket' which claims to reflect 90% radiant heat. Since most heat is lost by conduction (into the ground) and convection (into the air), this claim of retaining radiant heat means nothing whatsoever to a mountaineer. It possibly may even reduce your thermal/IR signature, which is never a good thing if SAR are looking for you; and they are so flimsy they would be shredded in less than a minute in use up a hill.

You describe a bothy-bag or group shelter/KISU (which can hold up to eight people), but the link you have posted leads to a polythene survival bag (for individual use). I would like to point out that neither of these items are bivvy-bags

As a course-trained MLT/UEL, I would always recommend some form of shelter is carried by all individuals within the group (and as a group leader I would consider taking spare warm clothing and a group shelter unit)

For the originator of this thread, I would recommend taking a poly-bag survival bag or AMK Heatsheets Bivvy (between £3-15). Upgrade to a bivvy-bag and spare warm clothing in winter; and consider taking a group shelter if in a group.

As for discussing the cost of items, forget the cost. As pointed out by others, buy cheap buy twice. But the way I look at it: what is my life worth. If you won't shell out a couple of hundred pounds to make sure you are correctly clothed I would suggest mountaineering/hill walking is not your ideal sport.

Secondly christheclimber, your info about carrying knives, ropes and learning to climb is quite simply balls :D if we're talking about bimbling about the Peak District. It is statements like that which make people think they need ropes and climbing skills that keeps them away from nature.
Chris, please don't take this as me being a dick with you, I just wanted to dispel some common myths

IT GUY, get yourself to any of the high-street retailers and the staff there will rig you out to your needs. If you go to any popular UK hill areas (Lakes, N Wales, West Highlands) you will get quality kit and advice from staff who are very familiar with your needs and wants.

A lot of sense there, read and inwardly digest.

Having read through the whole thread I can't be arsed to comment on some of the crap but a few things. Cotton has its place in the outdoors but it's limited to socks and pants, modern fabrics are designed to make up for the weaknesses of natural fibres. Walking poles are an essential for hillwalkers, particularly when descending they relieve your knees of about 30-50% of the stress you impose on them, take it from someone who has been mountaineering for 30 years and whose knees are shot to bits!

I think Chris is talking about a Bothy Bag: LINK another essential if you are considering going out in Winter, Spring or Autumn and a very worthwhile investment for a few quid- it really coud save your life.

Finally if you want to go out walking in remote regions, especially at this time of year get some professional advice about kit- a good outdoor shop like Cotswold/ Taunton Leisure/ Black etc is a good start. Find someone who knows what they are doing to take you out and don't become another bloody statistic. PS- you aren't going to get yourself sensibly equipped for the great outdoors on £100, not as long as my arse faces downwards. A decent jacket, thermal layer and mid layer is going to cost more than that; add a sack, boots, shelter, socks, gloves, hat and a few of the nice things like a canoe bag, poles, decent compass, map, torch etc and I would say the entry level for this passtime is £300 absolute minumum, however that should do you for about 5 years if you buy prudently. But hey it's your life, how much is it worth!

Originally Posted by Cryptotermes

Originally Posted by christheclimber

a bivi bag will set you back a fair bit, i suggest one of these:

they are sort of like a big plastic bag. iv forgotten the name, but they conserve like 98% of your body heat. cost about a fiver, most mountaineering shops sell them.

you can get variations to hold up to about 8 people. if your not planning to spend time overnight, taking that will be fine. most are orange on the outside,

You describe a bothy-bag or group shelter/KISU (which can hold up to eight people), but the link you have posted leads to a polythene survival bag (for individual use). I would like to point out that neither of these items are bivvy-bags


Secondly christheclimber, your info about carrying knives, ropes and learning to climb is quite simply balls :D if we're talking about bimbling about the Peak District. It is statements like that which make people think they need ropes and climbing skills that keeps them away from nature.

i think we've crossed wires a bit here. i meant a proper bivvy bag (like a mini tent) is rarely cheap. on closer inspection i see the link was not exactly what i thought it was. i did mean a group shelter type thing, and tbh im not great with all the special names, hence some confusion.

if your not expecting to spend a night out, and arent alone, iv found a group shelter is perfect. warm as hell once you get settled, and iv been in fucking cold conditions in one. obviously, its not going to lead to a comfortable night, but sitting on your rucksack, out of the wind and rain, and you'd be able to walk off next day. also, seen as its a glorified sheet, i think it is better for dealing with injured people. if you have a tent, or shelter which is all in one, and somebody falls, getting them in is a pain if you suspect spinal injury, unless you cut the bottom out (not possible if you dont have a knife ;) ). and of course in many places, mountain rescue doesnt send a helicopter all the time. moving your mate into a tent and causing them more agony probably wont go down well.

regarding climbing, i was agreeing with another poster that its worthwhile, simply because a little bit of climbing, opens up a huge array of alternative routes, as any sort of scramble is open to you. if nothing else, it gives you far more confidence walking. watch a climber and a non climber going over scree or rough stony ground. invariable the climber will be jumping along from rock to rock barely hesitating, with full confidence that their foot will hold, even if its their first time in the mountains/hills/ whatever.

personally, iv been doing shit like this since i can remember, and advice given to me when i was a nipper was 'always carry a knife, and always know how to sharpen it.' mine weighs about 100g, goes on my belt, and stays there. basicly, you dont know whats going to happen. ok, im saying this from mountaineering rather then hillwalking, but shit does happen to the best of us.

and also, to be fair, i usually expect some amount of flak. most of what i know comes from a family member, who is now dead, and obviously, people doing recent ML courses, end up with some different opinions.

in my view, some of the first mountaineers where geologists, and botanists, who would climb some serious mountains, in a wooly vest, couple of trousers and some hob nail boots. the way i see it, if they can climb the monroes in scotland (which are serious) and come down fine, with such little equipment and no cutting edge technology, why do we need to inisist on spend 300 pounds?

obviously, growing up like that means im perfectly comfortable being soaking wet, but i guess its not for everyone.



anyway, its good to have these discussions and disagreements, because a) the original poster, it shows there is no gospel. improvising and adapting over time will give you a good set up. one thing i think we all agree on is that by the time you buy your kit, somebody will have released a better one, there is so much range, because there are so many types of people.

and b) we all learn from each other. im not perfect (bloody close tho), and neither is anybody else, and we all get to think this stuff over and such.

chris