ARmy Rumour SErvice

**Bailey** · 16-06-2012, 14:11

Originally Posted by Petardier

As a bit of history, HAC were artillery (RHA to be pedantic) throughout WW2, and immediately after locating I believe.

Their current role dates back to c.1970, it was another decade before the similarly roled regular unit was formed.

Since c.1970 the primary role has been observation of artillery fire in depth. The fact of the possibility of fancy footwork to get there and/or the ability to dig a cunning hole is mere detail. How typical of the British Army to confuse means with the main job of directing fire.

IIRC correctly during the Cold War HAC came under command HQRA 1 Corps (yes I know it had many names over the years). In peace it was under at least technical comd/control of HQ 21 Arty Bde/Gp in Woolwich, their role as Gunners meant they had a RA Trg Maj, an assigned SMIG and an IG from HQ 21. The role remains an artillery one, and given the relatively recent realisation that there is no such thing as too many arty obsvrs (many Gunners have realised this for decades, the rest of the army have been slow learners) then the primary role remains relevant, even if it doesn't need fancy foot and spadework.

I am sorry but there are a number of significant errors in the latter two paragraphs of your post and as for the WW2 reference, even if one was to forget the OCTU, 6 years out of 475 is not particularly statistically significant. The post '70's cold war role was not the observation of artillery fire, they did not come under wartime command of HQRA at 1 (Br) Corps for most of that period, at least since the 1980s they have had nothing to do with any Arty formation in Woolwich and had neither a SMIG nor IG attached. If fact for most of the last 20 odd years only OR Gunner PSI posts (outside the G4 world) have been one RHA Sgt and one RA SSgt)

**Petardier** · 17-06-2012, 09:02

I'm not too sure that being an OCTU in the period before Adams became A-G is anything to boast about. 11 and 12 HAC, field regiments are a different matter.

The Cold War role was observation of artillery fire, eyes for the M107 batteries, with a sqn assigned to each division, and a LO party attached to each div's HQRA (the CPU LO det worked to G2), this assignment was ordered in the Corps Arty section of the Corps GDP. The observn of fire role was the reason for the Gun Troop - a training aid, which IIRC correctly lasted until the end of the CW. The SMIG may have been shared with the RA sect in London UOTC. 21 Arty Bde/Gp had IGs for RA TA field branch and that's what HAC were for technical training.

**hogstable** · 18-06-2012, 19:10

Originally Posted by Carlos_Sanchez_IX

SB Reserves is now virtually a full time role, lot of self employed/work from home types in the ranks, the commitment required even at selection phase is huge, they want you down there all the time doing additional PT/training, thats straight from a mate at Merseyside, he has been there 4 years, granted he is ex Royal but has just squeezed out his 3rd tour with bags of cross training and jolly's in-between, money is very good too apparently.

Do agree though, go green/RMR, decent blokes, the old rubber dagger adage has died a well deserved death, decent specialist qualifications, loads of AT and wherever regular Royal goes be it operational or exercise/jolly RMR ranks are omni-present and are in ever increasing numbers. An interesting point given to me once was that the RMR will strive to never deploy a sub standard individual, RMR guys drop straight into PDT and remain with their Commando Grp throughout, it is not up to the regular brethren to upskill or improve on the RMR volunteers unlike that period of time when the TA/Reserves was firing its utter bags of shit down to Chilwell in droves, I can attest to that as I sat around (literally) there in utter disbelief at some of those considered 'depolyable', I am led to believe thats no longer the case. Goes someway to prove a point though.

I also agree with the OP on a number of points. A tick in the box for completing an arduous course, in most cases, instills a continuing desire to be tested, to improve, to be used for purpose and to keep expanding and compounding your skill set in a challenging environment. Digging out blind and passing these courses is a waste of time if you are to then spend the rest of your career doing everything 'but' your chosen role.

Point in case a lad in my original intake at Lympstone carried two specific injuries picked up in phase 2 (the important bit

)
He avoided what was then Hunter Troop like the plauge, regardless of the fact it is/was a purely remedial facility designed to you get you back in the physical loop and not a place to toss it off when you pick up a couple of lumps and bumps. Anyhow, he passed, then spent his 4 years in and out of hospital, unable to deploy and never going anywhere. By the time he chinned it off he was severly depressed and overweight. Tried to top himself on numerous occasions and failed to get a significant payout, thanks to the beauty of Linked-In he is seemingly doing alright.

If you are at the stage where you are soliciting opinion left right and centre and from anyone its probably time to move on. Suppose if you stay as perce you get to retain your commision but am unsure of that implication if you effectively joined the Andrew.

I can only talk of my time as an RMR recruit, failed the Cdo course twice..... in 92 the SBS Reserve were asked to put an team on every SB exercise and then most of them were full time Reserve, although one was a copper. God knows what it must be like now.

Excellent blokes and not twats either

**Carlos_Sanchez_IX** · 18-06-2012, 19:22

Originally Posted by hogstable

I can only talk of my time as an RMR recruit, failed the Cdo course twice..... in 92 the SBS Reserve were asked to put an team on every SB exercise and then most of them were full time Reserve, although one was a copper. God knows what it must be like now.

Excellent blokes and not twats either

Very much a full time job still from what I'm led to believe. 4 years ago you had to complete AACC prior to starting any kind of advancement toward selection, that was certainly true for those having a crack at it with Poole's reserve. Makes perfect sense to benchmark candidates by ensuring they are capable of completing the base level requirment, think the SAS (r) does this with candidates ooop North, CIC and P Company I think.

**moving-target-survivor** · 18-06-2012, 20:01

Originally Posted by Bailey

...a certain ex-Regular officer who has recently been asked to find employment elsewhere after proving unsuitable.

Oh dear! :D

**hogstable** · 18-06-2012, 20:02

Yes I've heard that if you apply to do 23 you do P Coy first so you get trained up to basic soldier standard and then have a good base to do the rest of the selectoin. Plus if you drop off the 23 bit at least there is a chance you will goback to 4 para.

When I was in recruit training it was a straight transfer from an RMR unit to do SB. The benefit was that you had done pretty much weekend on / weekend off and 2 weeks at Lympstone so you already had a good skills base. Allowing for the specialist fizz I'm not sure if coming from AACC (same that the RMR do ) you would have the same basis. But soldiering is soldiering and they'd get you up to speed.

Must go and stroke my cap comforter..........

H

**Carlos_Sanchez_IX** · 18-06-2012, 20:29

Get back on the horse you fanny

If you know where you went wrong twice you should have it licked 3rd time round (unless injured of course)

..and to be fair a pass is a pass, you could even say the RFCC is the harder work as the onus is on the individual to find the motivation to get out the house at 5 every morning to beast yourself, then again after work, then attending parade nights, then going out on a weekend excercise when all your pals are on the piss, then you get back Sunday and its dhobi kit, shower, zonk, up again for some self motivated PT, then to work at 8 .... ect ect ect ect repeat repeat repeat and repeat

Not sure if I could have done it that way, months of constant hammerings at 17 and I STILL had a bad wobble on one of the tests, just the way it is.

**hogstable** · 18-06-2012, 20:37

Gravity was my nemesis, If it wasn't for those pesky ropes .............

They changed the system so there was no longer a back Troop option.. I did reapply 10 yrs later after an injury after doing lots more fizz but even though my upper body had improved, ie able to do 5 pull ups which I'd never done on the previous course I just couldn't do the beep test so bye bye Hogstable.

On a positive note I've made a contribution to my TA Engr unit so always something silver lined out of everything. No I'm 40 and have properly knacked up my foot so now that is in doubt. But every time I think of Chris Terrill and he was in his 50's and 131 still have a Troop in Birmingham............... LOL.

**Carlos_Sanchez_IX** · 18-06-2012, 20:39

Originally Posted by hogstable

Gravity was my nemesis, If it wasn't for those pesky ropes .............

They changed the system so there was no longer a back Troop option.. I did reapply 10 yrs later after an injury after doing lots more fizz but even though my upper body had improved, ie able to do 5 pull ups which I'd never done on the previous course I just couldn't do the beep test so bye bye Hogstable.

On a positive note I've made a contribution to my TA Engr unit so always something silver lined out of everything. No I'm 40 and have properly knacked up my foot so now that is in doubt. But every time I think of Chris Terrill and he was in his 50's and 131 still have a Troop in Birmingham............... LOL.

To be fair Terrill is a beast, awesomely fit already with a heavy phys background so I wouldnt feel too shabby

**hogstable** · 18-06-2012, 20:55

Well, quick session of see saws and he would be flying off not me. I think he shows if you are not fat / broken you can do almost anything.

Passed my last CFT at 20 kg plus 25 stone of my own weight, 27 1/2 stones all in, joyous except that my foot is now knackered. During Phase 2 the RMR SB bloke with us was amazed that I was doing a speed march at 18 stones, he said that was like me doping a Bergan carry of ........

H 1 SB Nil lol

Off to the gym, then google map B26 3BE when I get home ;)