ARmy Rumour SErvice

141 has nothing to do with the cost. It's the prefix which stops anyone using 1471 to find out what number you called from and also blocks caller ID. Apparently it doesn't work for mobiles though so beware.

The idea of using a land-line number instead of an 08*** number is well known and publicised on sites like this one SAYNOTO0870.COM - Non-Geographical Alternative Telephone Numbers

Apparently the use of the 141 in this case is because if it is evident that you are calling from the UK the call will be blocked to force you to use the 0845 number. The site above has numbers for HMRC and says this "Self Assessment helpline
This is “overseas” number. Withhold your num (using 141) when calling from UK or else the call will be blocked. Expect to be told off for not using premium number!"

I've certainly used the site to call Sky on a land-line (included in my mobile contract) number instead of paying through the nose for the 0871 version

I heard a Labour MP ranting about GP's surgeries using these numbers. They forgot to mention it was Labour that forced us to have them.

Thanks for responses so far ...will download the programme tomorrow and listen to all of it again so I can hear exactly what was said . It did seem a bit too good to be true .

141 sets the "Presentation Restricted" flag in the signalling. Thus the carrier network(s) are required to honor that, and not indicate to the called party what the caller ID is. Since the receiving party can't bill back (using the 0845 mechanism), they will often play a message indicating that the call can't be received, please call (insert geographic number). You then call that number, and pay normal domestic rates. However, this will be the case for international callers too, so they need to be catered for.

There's a number of ways around this. The lack of caller ID is only apparent at the called party. It is indeed carried through the network, so the better the telecom engineers at the receiving party, the better able they are to defeat this. The idea is not to disclose the geographic number, but inevitably it will get out. One could also look at the Originally Called Number and Nature of Address parameters, which will give clues as to where the call originated. I.e OCN equal to geographic number, and NoA=national, then it's a local call. Another way is to look at the SS7 point code of the originating switch. If it's the international gateway, pass the call. If not, play "Foxtrot Oscar".

I thought 0845 was charged at local rate when called from a land line, but more (ie 14p) when using a mobile.

Sounds sensible, the termination charges from mobile networks are higher. I'm out of touch with UK price/number regimes, but the principle's the same.

Originally Posted by dingerr

I thought 0845 was charged at local rate when called from a land line, but more (ie 14p) when using a mobile.

That's exactly the problem for many of us with 0845. My mobile payment plan includes all 01 and 02 geographical numbers as part of the monthly cost but doesn't include 0845, for which I get charged more. Hence I often refer to the saynoto0871 site for an alternative number. Not so bad if the 0845 works after 7pm when my landline goes to ultra-cheap rate and it makes little difference which I use.

Well I downloaded the programme today … linky … BBC - Podcasts - Money Box … edition titled PPI Refunds 12 May … the intro mentions charges of up to 14P per min for 0845 numbers but see later . The section which explains the use of 141 starts at about 19.30 and is in association with using a Mobile Telephone . The later discussion about 0845 Numbers highlights the rate range for Mobiles which is much higher than the 10P per min for landline . Anyway one bit if good news as far as I am concerned Mrs B_R reminded me we had changed tariffs and we were no longer paying for daytime 0845 numbers . The HMRC service is still cr*p even though I now get free calls to them .